Competition Question (rules)

John Ariani · Post by **John Ariani** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:13 pm

I have some questions regarding what is allowed or not
allowed during a competition match in AP.
It’s in regards to the “sighter” targets. For me, I find
my nerves settle and my NPA is assisted if I shoot at
a 10mm vertical line, on an otherwise blank target.
Helps me line everything up. Can I bring my own sighter
target with me and use that? Can I turn over the sighter
targets provided, and draw a vertical line on them
and then use them?
Last thing. During the match, can I revert to the sighter
target during the match or am I restricted to “dry fire” only?
I hope these questions don’t sound too stupid!!
Thanks.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:41 pm

When using electronic targets your question is moot, because you must shoot at the target as presented. When using paper targets you are not allowed to place visible identifying marks on the target so something like your verticle line is not allowed. I have seen some people shoot sighting shots on the backs of their sighting targets but this probably could also be considered to be against the rules (though I could not find anything specific about it) because the required black triangle in the corner of the front of the the sighting target would not be clearly visible. No sighting shot, or any target other than record targets, are allowed after the first record shot is fired. Dry firing, without releasing gas, is allowed at any time during the match (but not during the firing of record shots in the finals).

pgfaini · Post by **pgfaini** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:40 am

On a related topic, I'm getting back into the sport after six years, and was going through my USA Shooting and ISSF rule books to refresh myself. Noticed that I was unable to find a mention of the scoring in the finals, down to a tenth, used with electronic targets. Anybody know where this is addressed? Just curious, since Wolf Creek has been lost, don't know where I'll ever shoot on electronic targets again.

Thanks, Paul

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:29 am

pgfaini wrote:On a related topic, I'm getting back into the sport after six years, and was going through my USA Shooting and ISSF rule books to refresh myself. Noticed that I was unable to find a mention of the scoring in the finals, down to a tenth, used with electronic targets. Anybody know where this is addressed? Just curious, since Wolf Creek has been lost, don't know where I'll ever shoot on electronic targets again.

Thanks, Paul

8.14.7.4 Scoring of the Finals will be conducted, if possible, with electronic targets or target reading machines, or manual devices must be used which classify each ring in ten sections (such as 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc., up to the maximum of 10.9). Shots on paper targets which cannot be classified by target reading machines will be scored by hand by Jury Members with ISSF approved instruments.

Spencer

pgfaini · Post by **pgfaini** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:11 am

Thanks Spencer,
Found it!

F. Paul in Denver · Post by **F. Paul in Denver** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:00 pm

Wow - I would really like to hear some more comments on the practice of shooting on the back/blank side of a sighter target. I do that all the time during the sighter series to get into the groove.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:56 am

F. Paul in Denver wrote:Wow - I would really like to hear some more comments on the practice of shooting on the back/blank side of a sighter target. I do that all the time during the sighter series to get into the groove.

My take on it, according to rule 8.15.0 the target for both competition and sighting is the one specified in 6.3.2.6. That obviously includes the black aiming mark and the scoring rings.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:53 am

With my Judge hat on, my thinking on this is to politely suggest that the use of non-standard targets can have a place in training sessions, but competition procedures are for competitions...
...for 10 M and 50 M, a shooter allocates the division of available time between sighters and competition shots and can 'settle in' by firing more sighting shots on the provided targets.

With my coach hat on, dependence on non-standard targets could indicate a problem that needs to be remedied.

In relation to reverting to sighters, unless there has been a delay or the shooters is moved to another target, read rules 8.2.5.3.1 and 8.6.4.4.2 http://www.issf-shooting.org/rules/engl ... 5_2nd.html

Spencer

PaulT · Post by **PaulT** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:05 am

The rules are very clear re 10/25/50 aiming diagrams for match and official training. Any thing contra done locally in training is unreliable as many events will apply rules correctly.

One approach is for shooters to adapt training technique to then use in pre-match by introduction of dry-firing / aiming exercises during this time. Some events provide dry-fire areas, others you need to find your own safe space. Seasoned shooters know the height from floor to wall for dry-fire; obtain this when in training with tape from barrel to floor so you can replicate in dry fire training. As you are aiming close to wall, large white patch for working on sights or very small black patch (I personally don’t like black patches for non ORF events as you are introducing an aiming area and this can be done in preparation time on the actual range but some do).

Make sure you will not violate any local range regulations, I have seen some officious range staff armed with packs of range incident forms and high desire to use them all up by close of competition.

Enjoy your shooting!

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:32 pm

I'm not sure I understand ISSF Rules, but here is this anyway. How about a white/blank stick on object for in front of the foresight. Something that you could shoot through/off if accidently left there. Something similar to the flag on the snow covers Biathletes use. It could function as your blank target/dryfire wall by placing/sticking it in front of the foresight.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:45 pm

jackh wrote:How about a white/blank stick on object for in front of the foresight. Something that you could shoot through/off if accidently left there.

I don't think that is the answer. The question was about shooting on the back of the target. IMHO that is a no-no.
Dry firing would be totally different. My instant reaction is that I would allow it (but I am open to a different viewpoint).