AP Target quality?

[TomAmlie]

Does anyone have any experience with American-made AP targets, other than those from National Target Co.? I (ONCE) purchased some AP targets from them and they are pretty much useless (they tear instead of punch, so after a few shots the target center is a tattered mess). They've been relegated to the role of 50 foot FP stand-ins, which is actually pretty useful now that the indoor season is upon us.

I know the Edelmann AP targets are good; that's what I've been using.

There are a number of other US-based target manufacturers. Are all of their AP targets as unsuitable as those from National Target? The 4-Bull format available on the US targets is very convenient, but not if the targets themselves are sub-par. Also, the relative cost of the US-made targets is appealing.

TIA

[guest85]

Try mounting the targets (tightly) on a smooth piece of corrugated cardboard.

[Ed Hall]

American Target B-40s give me results similar to those you describe. :-(

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[jrmcdaniel]

The National Target Company changed paper sources about a year ago or so and the new paper simply does not work for airguns in my opinion. I have also had similar problems with the Canadian Cibal (sp?) targets. I would only buy Edelmann or Kruger targets. As someone noted, if you want to go to the problems of replacing the backing for every target, you probably can get buy with the poorer brands but the extra cost of the good brands is far less than the cost of a poor-brand target and backer.

Best,

Joe

[David Levene]

It's not just you on that side of the Atlantic who suffer from poor target quality.

The home-grown ones here in the UK tend to be pretty bad as well.

Apart from in major competitions I doubt if many will shoot one shot per target. Is it any wonder that you can always spot the target scorers. They are the ones who have pulled out all of their hair trying to find the double shots in a tangle of torn paper fibres. On that subject, the taper gauges available from the ISSF shop are fantastic for finding the doubles.

[cdf]

Canada Targets in Gatineau Quebec makes good quality targets , they puncture cleanly and are easy to score . Jocelyn is a fine Gent to deal with , he handles a lot of stuff besides targets .

Chris

[F. Paul in Denver]

The relative humidity to which the targets are exposed to will also effect how they punch. The more humidity, the worse they get.

With that said, the American targets are horrible even up here at 8000 feet in the Rockies. The Canadian Cibles targets are much better and worth the extra cost. I agree that nothing but nothing cuts better than the Edelmans though.

I recently heard that the price difference between Cibles and Edelman has narrowed to the point it may not make much difference which way you go.

[pgfaini]

Have the American targets diminished in quality over the last five years? I've not been shooting for that time due to eye problems, which medical science has recently adressed. I used to prefer them over Nationals, as they were heavier, and cut a cleaner hole. I've still got about 500 left over, and have started training again. I've found them to be as good as ever.

Perhaps the trouble is with the method of holding the target? Edelmann's are very heavy, but if memory serves, are held loosely on their trap.

My pellet trap is made with a 3/4" plywood front, and has a 6-1/2" square opening. Just below this, I drilled two holes 6" apart, into which are inserted clips, much like the ones that secure the slide on a plain-stage microscope. These are .100"dia. music wire, 9" long. They securely hold the targets along both sides, and I've had no trouble with ragged edges or tearing with the American targets, five shots per target. I used these same targets when being postal coached by "Coach" Wong at NASSA, with never a complaint about the cleanliness of the holes.

I originally started with National targets, and to improve the sharpness of the holes punched, used backers of oak tag(File folders). Later, I installed an aluminum "backer" (of discarded street sign stock), behind the target with a hole the size of the six ring, which works as well. This might help anyone who's got a pellet trap with a solid face, don't know if it could be held with the free hanging "paper clip" type holder.

With the American targets, I can get a decent hole with or without the backer. I used to buy 1M at a time, and store them on a shelf in my fairly dry basement, below the pellet trap, where the ones I'm using now, have been lying for five years.

After originally reading this thread, I went down to the basement and fired five shots without the backer, and they're clean. I should add, that I'm using a Morini 162E that chronographs at 510-520 fps. Maybe slower guns need a stiffer, more brittle target?

I'm going to call American, and ask them if they've changed the paper stock they're now using. Hope Not!
Paul

P.S. Sorry for the length of the post, been so long since I've been able to shoot, I'm like a new kid.

[DHURT]

FOR PRACTISE, TRY THE FIVE BULL STRIP EDELMANS FROM PILKINGTON. THEY PUNCH GREAT AND ARE WELL PRICED. THE STRIPS ARE ONLY THE BLACK CENTERS AND SLIDE INTO A SLOTTED REGULAR TARGET. MAY NOT BE THE BEST TARGETS IF YOU GET MANY HITS IN THE WHITE, BUT MOST TARGET TALKERS ARE DEEP INTO THE BLACK, RIGHT? REGARDS, DWAINE

[Richard H]

The National Target Company changed paper sources about a year ago or so and the new paper simply does not work for airguns in my opinion. I have also had similar problems with the Canadian Cibal (sp?) targets. I would only buy Edelmann or Kruger targets. As someone noted, if you want to go to the problems of replacing the backing for every target, you probably can get buy with the poorer brands but the extra cost of the good brands is far less than the cost of a poor-brand target and backer.

Best,

Joe

I don't know what you're shooting with but the targets from Jocelyn in Quebec are excellent we have been using them for years they are not quite as heavy as the Edelmann targets but punch cleanly.

They have even used them at the Nationals in Canada.

You may want to look at how your store them, if they are damp or in a high humidity enviroment you may have problems.

[RobStubbs]

You can import buk quantities of targets for next to nothing of very high quality. I bulk buy mine from Germany at less than half the price we get them from our governing body, even after shipping. They will ship up to 3000 targets in a pack and I think that'd work out about $20 per thousand or thereabouts. I obviously ship them from Germany to the UK, but I doubt they'd be much more expensive shipping them to the US.

Rob.

[Torn Fibre]

You can import buk quantities of targets for next to nothing of very high quality. I bulk buy mine from Germany at less than half the price we get them from our governing body, even after shipping. They will ship up to 3000 targets in a pack and I think that'd work out about $20 per thousand or thereabouts. I obviously ship them from Germany to the UK, but I doubt they'd be much more expensive shipping them to the US.

Rob.

Hi Rob

Can you please specify what the outer dimensions of these targets are and presumably these are the B-40 with all the score rings or just the 6 to 10X rings?

I use computer programs like Airgun 7.5.2 to print my own but it is a real pain using backing cardboard. I've tried many paper weights 80 to 150 g/mxm but yet to find one that is all things to all pellets and their velocities using air pistol.

I have even tried various grades of plain backing or lining wall paper as used for pre decorating walls and cut to size but all this takes much time, mind boring effort and uses up plenty of ink.

Can I import some from you please?

Cheers Torn Fibres ;-)

[RobStubbs]

They are the ISSF approved size, equivalent but a lot better than the NSRA 4/89's. The company I use is called 'Krueger' you should be able to find them easily on the web. As an aside you can also get Cards in the UK from Granville Jones, but his are not ISSF approved (don't know his prices though).

Rob.

[Torn Fibre]

Thanks Rob

I'll have a search and see what comes up.

Have pm'd you.

Cheers TF