Matchgun Standing Behind Their Product

R.M. · Post by **R.M.** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:33 pm

I got a call from Neal Stepp today at ISS, where I bought my MG2. Seems that Matchguns are replacing the barrel and slide in order to fix the oversized extractor and slot. This is to correct the casing bursts that were happening with certain brands of ammo.
About the only ammo that I had burst out was Aguila Std. Vel. I didn't find it so bad as to complain to my Matchgun dealer, but it is nice to see that they realize that it is a defect, and are standing behind their product.

R.M. (a happy MG2 owner)

MG2-ist · Post by **MG2-ist** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:23 am

This is good news. I think it is mandatory to stop the case-burstings, in regard to the safety of shooter/bystanders.
Barrel and slide assy? Free? Seems MatchGuns are standing behind their products...

MG2-ist · Post by **MG2-ist** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:11 am

R.M. wrote: I got a call from Neal Stepp today at ISS, where I bought my MG2. Seems that Matchguns are replacing the barrel and slide in order to fix the oversized extractor and slot. This is to correct the casing bursts that were happening with certain brands of ammo.

R.M. (a happy MG2 owner)

The importer to my country had no information about this "barrel and slide exchange" program.

Is your gun a relatively early one? May I ask when it was made, or the serialnumber- range og your gun?
Mine is a 14xx btw.

Thanks for any furter info.

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:35 am

I installed the new bbl and slide that Neal sent me and tested it. I tried 9/10 different brands and the pistol digested all without a problem.This included std and sub vel ammo. Some of the ammo is the same stuff that previously had problems before.The s/n is 15xx.Glad to see that Matchgun company stands by their products. The problem with the pistol didn't affect all MG-2 pistols-but this solution seems to fix and enhance the reliability of those pistols that had some problems. Good show Neal and Stefano Regards Erod

F. Paul in Denver · Post by **F. Paul in Denver** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:27 pm

Kudos to Match Guns for doing the right thing. I have to wonder though if some sage legal advice didnt also play into this decision to come up with a fix.

A firearms manufacturer who has direct knowledge about cases bursting and does nothing about it is just asking to be ruined by personal injury lawsuits.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:53 pm

Everybody selling anything in the US is just asking to be ruined by some lawsuit, regardless of his being responsible or not. BTW, I would want to see some ambulance chaser suing an Italian company, now that would be fun. A lot of companies live well without selling anything in the People's Republic of America, and, among us, it is not really THE major market for ISSF style target pistols...

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:54 pm

F. Paul in Denver wrote:Kudos to Match Guns for doing the right thing. I have to wonder though if some sage legal advice didnt also play into this decision to come up with a fix.

A firearms manufacturer who has direct knowledge about cases bursting and does nothing about it is just asking to be ruined by personal injury lawsuits.

Only if they choose to sell to the US.

Pretty cynical view on the world, but i guess that's the lawyer in you ;) The fear of lawsuits is the only thing that keeps us in check without it, it would be anarchy:)

F. Paul in Denver · Post by **F. Paul in Denver** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:05 am

That correct - an injured American plaintiff s not likely to be able to sue a foreigner on a product liability basis. However, if the injury occurs to someone standing next to the MG shooter - the MG shooter is going to find himself with a huge problem - no matter what country he's in.

IF the MG is ever imported into this country, it's the importer who proftis from the sale that ends up getting sued.

Anarchy aside, the the fear of having to compensate someone for injuries arising from the use of an inherently dangerous product is what keeps most people in line. Gun manufacturers are no exception.

To those of you MG shooters no matter where you live - make sure you hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire in getting your gun retrofitted. You paid good money for a gun that should not only work well but one that is also SAFE to shoot.

Slo cat · Post by **Slo cat** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:43 am

Tycho,

I agree that the US legal liability climate is out of control, in many ways. Manufacturers here go to sometimes-ridiculous extremes to protect themselves against what would be considered frivolous suits anywhere else in the world.

But please don't confuse this liability issue with the socialistic, cradle-to-the-grave security climate of most of the EU governments, by calling the US the People's Republic of America. In comparison, this term just doesn't fit. Yet.

Best Regards,
Slo cat

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:07 pm

You've got to be joking - how many government institutions are there in the US, concerned with the "safety" and "security" in the land of the free and the brave? You're not as far away from China as you think; neither are we, but at least we are aware of it instead of believing in some myth...

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:27 pm

You are correct Tycho-In America,we are still under the illusion that if we pass enough laws,rules,guidelines,regulations or demand more money-SOMEHOW the people will become more responsible,ethical,accountable for their behavior or suddenly acquire massive doses of common sense. It ain't gonna happen my friend,it ain't gonna happen. Erod

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:45 pm

F. Paul in Denver wrote:That correct - an injured American plaintiff s not likely to be able to sue a foreigner on a product liability basis. However, if the injury occurs to someone standing next to the MG shooter - the MG shooter is going to find himself with a huge problem - no matter what country he's in.

IF the MG is ever imported into this country, it's the importer who proftis from the sale that ends up getting sued.

Anarchy aside, the the fear of having to compensate someone for injuries arising from the use of an inherently dangerous product is what keeps most people in line. Gun manufacturers are no exception.

To those of you MG shooters no matter where you live - make sure you hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire in getting your gun retrofitted. You paid good money for a gun that should not only work well but one that is also SAFE to shoot.

Thats why your toaster comes with warnings not to use it in the tub. Unfortunatley the lawyers in the US have managed to remove personal responsiblilty from basically every action someone does. So now when the manufacture actually does the right thing a lawyer can stand up and take credit for it.

F. Paul in Denver · Post by **F. Paul in Denver** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:35 pm

The only point I had hoped to make before this turned into a knife fight in a phone booth was that the MG situation is not about anyone taking credit - including lawyers.

It's about a manufacturer taking RESPONSIBILITY.

In civilized countries, the legal system is an option of last resort to ensure compensation to the injured when market forces fail to provide that incentive.

Our sport has enough image problems - we dont need to add products that even when used properly fail to live up to minimal safety requirements.

Let me repeat - I think MG should be commended for their efforts in rectifying this problem regardless of their motivations for doing so.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:14 pm

We all live in glass houses, so none of us should be so quick to throw stones at the other.

Let's stick to shooting targets, not each other.

MG2-ist · Post by **MG2-ist** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:55 am

Ernie Rodriguez wrote:I installed the new bbl and slide that Neal sent me and tested it. I tried 9/10 different brands and the pistol digested all without a problem.This included std and sub vel ammo. Some of the ammo is the same stuff that previously had problems before.The s/n is 15xx.Glad to see that Matchgun company stands by their products. The problem with the pistol didn't affect all MG-2 pistols-but this solution seems to fix and enhance the reliability of those pistols that had some problems. Good show Neal and Stefano Regards Erod

Report from the importer of MatshGuns to my country: The barrel/slide exchange-program only includet guns featuring a "BARREL MILLED TO ACCEPT A WIDE EXTRACTOR, but with a SLIDE/BOLT FEATURING A NARROW EXTRACTOR (!).

So the essential question is: was your MG2 supplied with a barrel with wide extractor slot, but with a bolt carrying a narrow extractor?

I want my barrel and/or bolt exchanged, but the importer seems reluctant. I have some concern about the ever-reoccuring case-ruptures, though.

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:10 am

The bbl with the enlarged extractor slot,will probably cause a rupture/bulge with certain brands of ammo-but NOT all brands of ammo.The reason,I believe,is because in that particular area of the shell casing, the shell is unsupported-and pressure causes a bulge/rupture in some brands.A thicker or thinner extractor,will probably not solve this problem.Replacing the bbl with a modified bbl will solve this problem.That leaves the extractor.You can't use the old extractor-it is too thick and won't fit into the extractor slot of the modified bbl.The factory as I see it,has three choices. One-is to supply a slide/extractor with a modified bbl and that will solve the problem.Two-supply a modified thinner extractor with the new bbl and have the customer install the modified extractor.And three-with the new bbl-have the customer file the end of existing extractor so that it fits into the new bbl extractor slot. I don't know what route the factory will take-but I am glad they are trying to solve the problem. My bbl had a wide extractor slot and my extractor was the wider type-made to fit into the wide bbl slot.Erod

MG2-ist · Post by **MG2-ist** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:16 am

Let me just ask, Earnie: were you offered a barrel/slide exchange, like "R.M"?

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:39 am

Neal Stepp is the Matchgun dealer for MG-2 and I guess he learned long ago that if you try to treat your customers fairly and with a little understanding,you will have not only satisfied customers,but you yourself will have an excellent reputation as a dealer.To answer your question-he knew I had some minor rupture problems with some brands and he offered me a modified bbl/slide/extractor.It solved all of the problems and now it is rare,if ever,the pistol malfunctions with ANY ammo.Erod

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:09 am

Let's get down to nuts and bolts, folks. What are the exact widths of the "wide groove" and the "narrow extractor"? I have a fairly new MG-2 as well as an "old" MG-2. And their extractors and extractor grooves are radically different. Having the exact widths would be a big help for those of us who may have to contact a different importer/dealer to resolve an functional problems they're having with their pistols.

R.M. · Post by **R.M.** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:25 am

Mark
My new extractor claw measures .157" thick. I have already sent the old parts back to ISS, so I can't give you an actual measurement, but I would guess that the old one was about .200"/.250" thick.
Neal told me the serial number range, and as your new one is one # off of mine, I would assume your's should get replaced also, but I can't remember them now.

Hope this helps.
R.M.

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