average score

[Axel]

Axel,

I'm assuming that your AP 553 was a personal best after a full year of shooting. Did you do any kind of shooting before??? Just curious.

Yes, I shot some rifle and pistol when I was little. But not at any serious level. Other things were more important then.

To increase to a PB of 573 within your second year is incredible (by MY standards). Please let me know what you are doing... I need to try it myself!!!

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. There is no secret about it other than just hard work. When I did 573 I was very happy. I did 570 the day before which were my goal for the season.

Me.. I've been shooting AP for the last year. My first match score (ap) was 449 (about a month after picking up my first real AP). Since then I've managed to increase my average to about 520 (after a year of shooting). I shot similar scores at Ontario provincials, and Canadian Nationals.

That progress... 449 to 520 was with one night of practise per week, and a couple hours of dry fire at home. Not much... just wondering how that compares to your training.

That is very good David. If you put some more effort into it your scores will increase big time, guaranteed. Now I train a lot, about 10 to 15 hours a week just pure shooting training. Some physical training adds to that. This is where I will put more effort in the future. I shoot almost one tin of AP pellets each week. I don't do much dry training because I find it so boring. I'm very impressed by people that are doing lots of dry training, and having the discipline and staying focused while doing it. I cant do it for more than a couple of minutes, otherwise I'll die of acute boredom. ;-)

I train other disciplines, variation is good for me. FP and AP is closely related to each other. FP brings a totally new dimension into precision shooting - Good trigger work together with a pretty good and steady hold is very important. FP training makes you improve in all areas. You have to be stubborn enough to get past the first difficulties in FP. In the beginning it may seam impossible to shoot well with FP, holes are everywhere on the target, no control or feel whatsoever. But it will get better with some (lots ;-) of effort to it. It feels so god damn good when shooting well in FP... :-)

I also like Center Fire Pistol and Sports Pistol. Precision stage is pretty easy for me, averaging about 290p. Duello is another story... I need much work in that area...

Another question.. (Probably stupid.. .) I know this is an Olympic Pistol forum... but are we SURE that everyone is using ISSF targets when they are talking about these scores??? You should see my scores on some of the recreational sport targets ;-)

Yes, ISSF targets. :-) :-)

But it's not a bad idea to shoot at different targets. Variations is important to keep us alert and interested.

Cheers,
Axel

[Guest]

reading these progress predictions makes me feel really bad about myself. it took me around 5 years to reach 540s.

still using a stock pistol but i dont believe 540 is the limit. hopefully my hair wont be grey when i reach 570+.

[Guest]

But hey, what kind of beginner would think that they could just pick up a gun and starting to shoot just tens...

EVERY shooter - old or new should think they can shoot a ten each and every single time. Self confidence is a very important aspect of this game. The reason we all need encouragement is because it cant be done and our self confidence benefits from the support of others.

I think Nicole was saying that some people allow their self confidence to turn into a swagger. The difference between self confidence and swaggering\bragging is that the first is something you feel while the other is something you display.

Now I'm sounding like a shooting expert that has all the right answers.

I dont think anyone will quibble with you about that Axel.

[Mike S-J]

"You can soar with eagles if you can not let yourself be dragged down by the turkeys."

Statistically there is only one olympic eagle: whether I choose to have that self-image, or not is my buisiness. I choose not to project that image on a message board so, by extrapolation, I am a turkey. I could care less. Thats the point of positive self-image - its in your own head and you use it to in your struggle with yourself.

Axel may well be an exceptional and talented shooter - if he/she is then all the best to him / her.

However, the thread started with a request for advice to beginers. Shooting 570 after 1 year may be possible, but it is certainly not realistic.

By all means believe you will soar with the eagles, want to soar with the eagles and eventually feal the air rushing through your primaries. But don't forget we all start off as turkeys.

Real eagles are not dragged down by turkeys - in my experience they are quite happy to come down to earth and share what makes them special with the rest of us.

[Elmas]

"However, the thread started with a request for advice to beginers. Shooting 570 after 1 year may be possible, but it is certainly not realistic.


Real eagles are not dragged down by turkeys - in my experience they are quite happy to come down to earth and share what makes them special with the rest of us.

I think the best advice to novice shooters would be : Shoot your best. Without offering scores as goals... for our best is not uniform , as we are all different , each have their potential and they succeed by attaining their individual maximum.

Offering scores as goals , may please the few who manage to attain those scores.... but may lead many to despair and perhaps prematurely abandon a sport that offers so much satisfaction and healthy self discipline


Real Eagles are not dragged down by 'turkeys' ... but by the occasional turkey 'posing as an eagle' for obvious reasons!


Elmas

.

[Guest]

It`s interesting to read and realize that people have very different ideas of what´s realistic. I think that in some cases this will work as barriers/triggers. And one of the funniest things with shooting is that you can compete against yourself the whole time. :-)

So let the beginners understand that they set the goals and do the work. If they put their minds into it, and do all they can to improve, it will be good progress. How good and how fast, only time will tell...

Some people I know, just shoots to have fun, and meet people. They are happy and content with hitting the target all the time. And I fully respect that, because shooting is primary a fun sport and it should be fun to practise it. :-) Thats the core of why I am shooting.

[Elmas]

An afterthought .. Surely "turkeys" in shooting are better than "eagles" ... for one thing their meat contains more TRYPTOPHAN !
Therefore more tens to those who take the right sandwich at the right time !

Elmas

.

[Steve Swartz]

Fascinating thread.

Almost as interesting as threads about *how* good scores are achieved . . . and somewhat related I dare say.

I was pretty much a "self coached" guy until quite recently. Without going into details, I was able to shoot "quite well" in a very short period of time- first in NRA "Bullseye" and then in ISSF disciplines. (scroll down for "personal testimonial")

Progress has been very "stair stepped;" involving initial rapid progress- then a lo-o-o-o-ong plateau; a smaller rapid step, another plateau.

The amount of work to "break" a plateau is considerable. Once above the plateau, the amount of work to stay at that level is considerable.

I don't think my experience is unique.

Good coaching can reduce the length of time spent on the plateau I think- but can not remove the plateau itself (and effort required to climb).

Here's my personal theory:

- "Natural Ability" determines the initial plateau, and level of effort to overcome it
- "Effort and Focus" determines the time spent on a plateau
- "Performance Potential"- how high your ultimate performance will be, and how much effort it will take to get and stay there- is also determined by "Natural Ability."


Nature vs. Nurture . . . skill vs. determination . . . it will always be so.

*Some have a lot of talent but do not work hard.

*Some have a little bit of talent and work very hard.

They may shoot the same scores- for now.

Watch out for the talented guy/gal for whom things come easy- but who also has the fortitude to bust his/her butt to achieve great things.



Steve




Never shot any kind of match until age 38.

In Bullseye, I progressed quickly (months) to 2500 scores . . . scores languished in 2540 land for over a year . . . and then stepped up to 2580 plateau for another year before finally breaking 2600.

In ISSF, was able to shoot AP 550s from the beginning; within months shooting 560s. Two years later still shooting 560s. Only recently broken the 570 barrier consistently (only twice in practice and once in a PTO broke 580). The day I shot my 586 was effortless. When it was over I thought I had shot a mid-570. Do I think I can shoot a 600? I *know* I can shoot a 600. Can I shoot a 600 "on demand?" Now *that's* the really important question.

[Guest]

Interesting to know that now , presumably , with the right pistol, a customized grip and prescription lens to aid in front sight clarity has moved you up from 570 to ??

Elmas

.

Sorry for my late answer "Elmas"

Yes now I have my own gun with a better grip and shooting glasses with correction. Those factors have helped a bit.

But these factors are the big and very important answers to incresing performance:

Learning relaxation in breathing and muscles.

Using this new knowledge to relaxe in shooting.

Better and consistent stance.

Better and consistent grip.

Better and consistent locking of the wrist.

Better and consistent raise of the pistol.

Better and consistent focus of the FRONT SIGHT!

Better and consistent straight movement through the black down to aiming area.

Better and consistent TRIGGER CONTROL!!!

Better and consistent follow through.

Lot´s of sessions of dryfire.

Lot´s of "live" shooting of course.

Cardiotraining for increased endurance and stamina.

Gym training of the entire body.

Static holding of dumbells for increased strength and stamina in my hold.

Gripenhancing training with dumbells, bar and powergrip.

About 8-9 hours of sleep every night.

No cigarettes, no coffe, limited amounts of alcohol and candy, sodas etc.

Try to eat a balanced diet and small portions.

Try to seek harmony and balance in everything in life, I wan´t to feel good and to have fun, focus on positive things and seize the day!

Conclusion: All this factors are things that I try to optimize every day. It´s fun and I feel that I have a harmony in my life, I sleep good, I feel good when I get up. My days are good, my shootings sessions are good. My physical fitness is good, I feel both strong and have stamina. My concentration and ability to both focus and relaxe has improved a lot.

But now you maybe think, has he missed my question "Interesting to know that now , presumably , with the right pistol, a customized grip and prescription lens to aid in front sight clarity has moved you up from 570 to ?? :-)

My latest shootingsession when I counted my score ( I don´t do this everytime) was 584 in ap 60. And around 580 is a regular day for me now, not bad and not amazingly good either, just a normal day. My quest is to see where my limit is every day, and I dont even think there is a limit...exept in our heads...;-)

So my tips to all people from beginners to advanced is to have fun, learn the basics, tune them to perfection, then work hard, work hard, and work hard and enjoy the journey!

[Elmas]

Dear "Guest" ,

I am really and truly impressed with your current level of 580+, with your top score at 584 ! this is Olympic Level Shooting.

In your long list , you omitted " concentratioin " A lot of bad shots may be caused by a 'stray thought' moving across our consciousness in the middle of the trigger pull ! Perhaps you have no trouble with concentration , and assumed it a 'given' .

You also seem to have the right attitude .. Enjoying the whole thing .

I don't know of anyone on this forum who has attained your sores , or am I wrong ??

Elmas

.

[Guest]

Dear "Guest" ,

I am really and truly impressed with your current level of 580+, with your top score at 584 ! this is Olympic Level Shooting.

In your long list , you omitted " concentratioin " A lot of bad shots may be caused by a 'stray thought' moving across our consciousness in the middle of the trigger pull ! Perhaps you have no trouble with concentration , and assumed it a 'given' .

You also seem to have the right attitude .. Enjoying the whole thing .

I don't know of anyone on this forum who has attained your sores , or am I wrong ??

Elmas

.

Thanks a lot. I try to keep humle and remind myself often that a lot of elite shoooters around the world do 580+ often. Currently I am just an intermediate shooter that struggles to reach the top and get a place in the national team. I haven´t won the national championships yet, and haven´t even competed international yet. So I have a long way to go, but I climb and struggle all the time. :-) And it´s fun doing it!

No no concentration is not a God given gift for me, I have to work hard as everone else. Nothing comes for free.

I forgot to mention concentration in the list, but I mentioned it after the list. Concentration is of course extremely important. And this is a thing I have to train every day, in every shot. And at a "bad" day I maybe shoot 578 and at a good day I shoot for example 587. Thats my current personal best. And its mostly the ability to concentrate and relaxe that varies. If I were better in these areas I would shoot 590+ at a regular basis. I hope to improve my concentration and relaxation and hope to break 590 for the first time ever, this winter! :-)

[Richard H]

That is impressive shooting, over 580+ on a regular basis, 580+ would have gotten you in almost every World Cup Final and Olympic Final since 2000. What country are you from that 580+ won't get you on the national team (I can only think of a couple of countries). Do you shoot these scores in actual matches or are they just obtained in practice?

[Guest]

That is impressive shooting, over 580+ on a regular basis, 580+ would have gotten you in almost every World Cup Final and Olympic Final since 2000. What country are you from that 580+ won't get you on the national team (I can only think of a couple of countries). Do you shoot these scores in actual matches or are they just obtained in practice?

Thank you, yes it is a good level. I have been shooting ap for three years now and recently obtained steady performance at this level in practice. But I hope to reach this level at competitions soon, with more experience of competitions.

[Guest]

someone once told me this "why are you concentrating? you should be focused instead"

took me a long time to realise what i was doing wrong. my current understanding is not to concern myself with shutting everything external away. just let it be and shot.

[Guest10]

I would have to say there is quite a difference between shooting 580s in practice, and then in competition. The pressure that you put on yourself can be a considerable factor.

All the best.

[LkP]

I would have to say there is quite a difference between shooting 580s in practice, and then in competition. The pressure that you put on yourself can be a considerable factor.

Sure. But if we cannot do 380s pratice, how we can do it in competition?
Best Regards,
LkP

[Elmas]

someone once told me this "why are you concentrating? you should be focused instead"

took me a long time to realise what i was doing wrong. my current understanding is not to concern myself with shutting everything external away. just let it be and shot.

Surely , not such a long time... from your scores its hardly conceivable that you were doing anything wrong ! Was that when your score jumped up from 570 to 584 ?

The fruit of concentration is focus .


Elmas

.

[David Levene]

Sure. But if we cannot do 380s pratice, how we can do it in competition?

If you are doing it right then there should be no difference between the way you shoot in practice and in competition.

You should therefore have just as much chance of shooting a personal best in a competition as you would have in a practice match.

[RobStubbs]

Surely , not such a long time... from your scores its hardly conceivable that you were doing anything wrong ! Was that when your score jumped up from 570 to 584 ?

The fruit of concentration is focus .


Elmas

.

If he was doing nothing wrong then he would be shooting 600's.

Rob.

[donthc]

I would like to point out that not everyone here are bragging. it is indeed possible to shoot around 540-550 in half a year. but to do that, twice a week is simply not enough.

i had started shooting AP in mid May, and i spent about 6 days a week on training, each averaging 6 hours. Here is my progress:

1st month: 460
2nd mnth: 480
3rd mnth: 516
4th mnth: 534
5th mnth: 542

the crux of shooting AP is to keep your cool, and dun get piss off when u miss ur shots.etc. calmly repeat the techniques while shooting. Dun be too ambitious to aim for the 10. it is better to aim at the 9 ring.

rmb tt if u maintain a steady hand, fixing the sights right on the center, there is a high chance tt it will end up on the 10. even if it miss and hit the 9' instead, be optimistic, and be grateful that u did not screw up too badly.

however, there is only to a extent hardwork will serve. My scores are nowing staying stagnant at around 543.

BTW, though it is possible to shoot 550 in half a year, dun expect urself to be ablle to hit 570 anytime soon. i reckon tt after around 540, ur progress will become real slow, progressing at maybe a couple of points per mnth.
therefore, be realistic, set achievable goals.