HW40/Beeman P3 or IZH-46M for a beginner?

[EightyOne]

Hello, I was interested in taking up target shooting, and was wondering if the HW40/P3 would be a better start for a beginner than the 46M. I was thinking that maybe the 46M might be overkill for someone who is just beginning, while on the other hand, I have read some complaints about quality problems with the seals for the HW40/P3. I know that the 46M comes with seals, and there are also separate seal kits which can be bought; but if I buy the P3, I would have to ship the gun to Beeman to be fixed, and if I buy the HW40, I would probably have to send it to the online shop I bought it from (Pyramyd Air). Should I take my chances on the HW40/P3, or just go straight for the 46M?

Thanks for any advice.

EDIT: Sorry, I originally put P1, but I meant P3.

[joe4702]

Good P3 review here along with disassembly and seal change instructions.
Looks very straightforward:

http://my.tbaytel.net/~coopers@tbaytel.net/HW40Review/

I've had a P3 for about a year - great sport pistol with
near target pistol accuracy. Loads of fun. I rarely shoot
my P1 anymore.

However, I just put an IZZY on order. I think it will be better
for "serious" target work and silhouette and can still be
used for plinking.

[EightyOne]

Thanks, joe. I've actually seen that P3 review, but I don't where that guy got his seals, and I haven't seen any online retailer that just sells those things individually. Do you happen to know how he got extra seals, as well as that replacement for the spring that broke?

[joe4702]

Todd indicates you can use a standard #009 0-ring for the breech seal. Not sure where to get that - Home Depot, perhaps, or maybe a paintball store? Shouldn't be hard to find locally.

He doesn't indicate where he got the piston seal - I assume it's a factory part. I would think you'd have no trouble ordering parts from Beeman.

You may want to try e-mailing Todd if you have concerns about P3 parts/maintenance. He seems very knowlegable. I e-mailed him regarding his Tau-7 review and he answered back right away.

The IZZY comes with extra seals and seal kits are available for around $15.

Personally, I'm not worried about parts availability or maintenance. Both guns are very popular, backed by reputable companies and there are many experts to be found online who are very helpful if a problem comes up.

Joe

[Fred Mannis]

Hello, I was interested in taking up target shooting, and was wondering if the HW40/P3 would be a better start for a beginner than the 46M.

A number of people at my club shoot the P3 as well as the IZH-46M. Both guns are accurate enough to shoot well into the 90's. The IZH has a much, much better trigger. The sights on the IZH are also much much better. The people who shoot the P3 tend to do so because they do not like the muzzle heavy balance of the IZH. The grips on the IZH are large and not comfortable, but there is plenty of wood so you can easily fit them to your own hand. While the IZH looks crude, it has a strong, reliable action. I have seen a disassembled P3 and was not at all impressed with the quality, though I must say that my friend has had his P3 for several years with no problems.

I started with a P2, went to an IZH, and now shoot a Steyr. My recommendation would be to buy the IZH. It is a better gun and holds its resale value.
YMMV
Fred

[moose2much]

A good auto parts store will have a selection kit of about all sizes of O-rings. Don't know if they come in metric or inch or doesn't matter.

Roger B. Van Arnam
Micanopy Beach Florida

[ChrisL]

Difficult one. I have an Izzy, and regularly shoot an Hw40.

Price levels in Europ are somewhat different: Hw40 95 EUR, Izzy 300-400 EUR, if you can find one. (I've bought mine from Pilkguns anyway).

Trigger
The Hw40 trigger is very sweet, typical for the Weihrauch family. I'd call it match-like.

The Izh trigger could be called match-grade.

Accuracy
The Hw40 accuracy is very good, the Izzy Accuracy is near match (in my hands, it's as good as it gets).

Weight&balance
Initially, the Hw 40's light weight is an advantage. The izzy is indeedheavy, nose heavy and can be hard on your wrist - until you've got the hang of it, then it's a stabilising feature.

Grips
The grip of the Hw40 is marginal. Just a plastic grip.

There's a lot of whining about the Izzy's grip, but it's really very simple: there's a perfect grip in the standard izzy grip. The basic form is coarse but OK, you just have to get out the Dremel/sandpaper/... and adjust it to your hand&fingers. Two hours of honest work and you have a perfect grip. I've finished mine by sprinkling Carborundum 0.6 mm in a layer of epoxy resin, and it is at least as good as the grips on my haemmerli 208 or my sig210.

Don't be afraid to remove a lot of material: people generally make the error of having grips that are too thick. Look at a golf club, a hockey stick: no real need for an exceedingly fat grip...


As for your decision: around here they both hold their value really well, perhaps the Hw40 has the edge but that's because the izzy is so hard to find and consequently rather exotic.

They're both very good pistols; if you're cost conscient and the price levels are like in Europe, then go for the Hw; if not then go for the Izzy.

The Izzy is a longer term investment.

My 2 eurocents.

[Luke P.]

They're both very good pistols; if you're cost conscient and the price levels are like in Europe, then go for the Hw; if not then go for the Izzy.

Us price are very different: for the Izzy (that i own on Italy for 320 EUR), american's price is 269$~215EUR!

There is no chance for the Hw at this price (imho, also at european price): hw40 is good quality adult toy, Izzy is match pistol.

Luke P.

[Fortitudo Dei]

They're both very good pistols; if you're cost conscient and the price levels are like in Europe, then go for the Hw; if not then go for the Izzy.

Us price are very different: for the Izzy (that i own on Italy for 320 EUR), american's price is 269$~215EUR!

I agree - there is something odd about the pricing of the IZH-46m in Europe. I have a copy of the 2005/06 Frankonia catalogue from Germany (which possibly has the highest drool factor of any catalogue in the world). They are well known for having a direct source into a supply of Russian firearms. Yet their IZH-46m is priced at 499 Euro!

Conversely, Frankonia can sell you an IZH-35 / IJ35 for only 399 Euro (which even includes a third-party laminated grip) or a new Toz-35 starting from only 559 Euro! (and these prices include a German VAT- type tax of c.17%).

And while the IZH-46m is a pretty fine pistol, for the same price Frankonia sells CZ's new pre-charged compressed-air AP. If it shoots as well as it looks, it would be phenomenally good value.

[Luke P.]

I agree - there is some odd about the pricing of the IZH-46m in Europe. I have a copy of the 2005/06 Frankonia catalogue from Germany (which possibly has the highest drool factor of any catalogue in the world). They are well known for having a direct source into a supply of Russian firearms. Yet their IZH-46m is priced at 499 Euro!

Conversely, you can pick up an IZH-35 / IJ35 for only 399 Euro (which even includes a third-party laminated grip) or a new Toz-35 starting from only 559 Euro! (and these prices include a German VAT- type tax of c.17%).

And while the IZH-46m is a pretty fine pistol, for the same price Frankonia sells CZ's new pre-charged compressed-air AP. If it shoots as well as it looks, it would be phenomenally good value.

Yes, maybe is the market request and diffusion, izzy is not have great diffusion in Italy, there are so many italian brand, and izzy is listed on ~500EUR, mine i have got as "warehouse bottom", so it was priced very good.
I never seen the CZ's air pistol, please, can you post a link or a photo?
Thank you.

Bye.

Luke p.

[Fortitudo Dei]

I never seen the CZ's air pistol, please, can you post a link or a photo?

As requested - along with their new budget target AR as well. Taken from the Frankonia 2005/2006 catalogue. The grip looks a little rudimentary, but it still looks like it would be good value for the money.