.22 Short ???

rolexrifleman · Post by **rolexrifleman** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:19 am

Just invested in a Walther OSP (Thanks Pilk!) and now wondering what to feed it. Seems not many .22 short mfg. out there. I bought some CCI 0027 and 0028 since it was all that was around. Will this get me decent groups or is there another mfg. I should be looking at?
Need as much help with this as possible as I am new to the Short!

T.I.A.
H.C.

deleted1 · Post by **deleted1** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:25 am

There are several brands out there as in RWS, Eley etc. If CCI ( hotter than those mentioned) works in the gun then go with it, if it doesn't double in your gun---I would look no further. The other brands are much more expensive---the .22 short has never been awfully popular and did have a following over the years when the Olympic Rapid Fire event helped to develop the popularity of the .22 short. These specialized pistols and the ammo needed, produced a very finicky, cranky combination which led to many alibi runs in competition. When the ISSF rule changed to a "Standard Pistol" ( after 2000) for the event, the .22 short became a round that, already in obsolecense, shows sign it might disappear in a few years.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:28 am

If you do manage to find some decent ammunition then I would buy as much as possible if I were you.

Now that you cannot use 22 short for the Olympic Rapid Fire match there will be fewer and fewer manufacturers making it.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:04 am

I have heard that 22 short is a favoured round for pest control work - so assuming that's correct it will still be produced.

Rob.

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:37 am

I have used two types of CCI in an OSP. The CB (0026) is very low velocity, and therefore very low recoil, and would function the gun. However it seemed to be randomly inaccurate, occasionally throwing rounds way off call. The Target Short (0037) is slightly higher velocity than the Euro shorts, so a little more "snappy" in recoil, but functioned fine and was reasonably accurate. It was certainly quite adequate at my performance level, although not as enjoyable to shoot as some of the Euro stuff. Among the Euro shorts, Lapua, Fiocchi and RWS worked well, but Eley (both old and new versions) was a world of malfunction troubles. Remember, this is in just one OSP - I don't know about others. What are CCI 0027 and 0028 called on their packaging? You probably do not want to use any CCI shorts that are not labeled "target" or "standard velocity" for fear of damaging the gun.

HTH,
FredB

Mike T. · Post by **Mike T.** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:51 am

I've used CCI 22 CB (0026 in 100-round plastic box) and CCI 22 Target Short (0037 in 100-round plastic box) in my OSP. The CB is a little inconsistent in power. Some rounds are "softer" than average and some are "harder". Occasionally, the soft rounds will not cycle the action fully. All reach the 25-yd target, though. On average, the CB is closer to the Euro target shorts in terms of recoil energy, the Target is a bit heavier.
I've also used a Yugoslavian-made standard velocity .22 short packaged by Hansen Cartridge Company. These were inexpensive, but also a bit inconsistent in terms of recoil energy - but they were cheap!

Mike T. · Post by **Mike T.** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:00 pm

I guess I was still typing when Fred posted his reply :-)
Our experience with CCI CB and Target seems to be the same.
Mike T.

rolexrifleman · Post by **rolexrifleman** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:48 pm

The labels and data for the CCI ammo is as follows

#0027
.22 Short
29gr solid at 1080 FPS

#0028
.22 Short HP
27gr hollow point at 1105 FPS

Does anyone know the specs on the CB and Target?

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:35 pm

I don't know the published figures, and in any case published figures don't mean much for rimfire ammo that is used in both pistols and rifles, unless test barrel length is specified. Best guess: the CB is in the 600fps range and the Target Short in the 750fps range (from pistol length barrels). I am not a gunsmith, but I strongly advise you not use 0027 and 0028 in your OSP.

HTH,
FredB

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:56 pm

Champion's Choice told me to avoid CCI that eventually it would cause some problems. I use RWS but I have some Eley as well. The Eley is soft in recoil. I had some Fiocchi. It was too snappy for me.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:15 pm

Hi,

I have a late 80's OSP that I run CCI 0037 through with no problems at all. I checked with Earl and he said that most of the people that run OSP's that he sees run CCI 0037 in them. I had him give my pistol the once over after a year and 3 cases of CCI. He changed the recoil spring but everything else was fine.

It is a little snappy compared to some of the Euro ammo but I find that with the additional bolt speed/faster cycle time and more gas available for the recoil ports I find that my shot to shot times were faster with the CCI than say Eley or RWS. Granted this is in NRA indoor pistol matches and may not be true on the ISSF rapid fire course, but that's sorta a moot point now isn't it.

Tom

PaulT · Post by **PaulT** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:47 am

We CAN NOT ship but for European shooters...

We have several thousand .22 short in the UK and a few thousand more than needed for feeding interest / retro-matches in Switzerland.
Stock is mainly RWS R25 and RWS green box.

All money raised to British Pistol Club.

Bill A · Post by **Bill A** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:42 pm

Fred wrote:I don't know the published figures, and in any case published figures don't mean much for rimfire ammo that is used in both pistols and rifles, unless test barrel length is specified. Best guess: the CB is in the 600fps range and the Target Short in the 750fps range (from pistol length barrels). I am not a gunsmith, but I strongly advise you not use 0027 and 0028 in your OSP.

HTH,
FredB

Fred,

I generally agree about using the softest ammo you can get away with for any gun, but Earl Sheehan of Earl's repair told me that with the 1000 gr trigger on the OSP you can use any .22 short ammo. I asked him, "Any ammo, even high velocity?" He said, yes, ANY .22 short ammo.

Do you know of damaged guns with the 0028 stuff?

Shoot 10s,

Bill

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:44 pm

Bill,

No, I don't know of specific cases, I just made a suggestion based on the following reasoning. Both the 0026 CB and the 0027 HV shorts use a 29 grain bullet. The CB velocity is probably in the 600 fps range, and the HV in the 1100 fps range, nearly double the speed, and therefore nearly four times the muzzle energy. If the CB functions the gun, then the HV is a prime candidate for causing battering, with the same recoil spring. The only relevance of the trigger pull weight (1000g) is that the shock of the slide hammering the rear of the receiver would be less likely to cause a double or worse. The hammer spring weight of the triggers would be roughly the same, and it's the hammer weight that impedes the rearward motion of the slide, not the pull weight.

So I guess I would have to agree that it might be possible to use the HV ammo, but for how long before you destroy your gun? And why would you want to?

FredB

Bill A · Post by **Bill A** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:11 pm

Hi Fred,

Don't want to. Just citing what the expert Walther gunsmith told me. I agree with your reasoning, and again, always use the softest ammo I can find.

Bill

p.s. From ballistic tables, it looks to me like the mv for American "standard" velocity (like CCI 0037) is very close to that for "high" velocity. European "match" ammo is slower than 0037 "standard" by all reports. I wonder. . . has anyone ever done any chronographing?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:32 pm

If you use HV ammo on an OSP the first thing to break will be the plastic cocking piece. Usually one side will fly off while you are shooting and you will probably not notice until you go to grab it to re-cock the pistol.

I agree with those that have said to use "target" velocity ammo in an OSP. I had 2 of them from 1987-1999 and loved them.

Bill A · Post by **Bill A** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:46 pm

I think target ammo is always better. Having said that, has anyone chronographed CCI hv vs. "target" from a short pistol barrel to see what the real difference is?

Best regards,
Bill

dnovo · Post by **dnovo** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:20 am

I have had good luck with the Fiocchi 22 short Match. The RWS 25 works fine in most Hammerli but given the ported barrels of my Unique DES 69, and the slightly heavier reciprocating parts the Fiocchi worked a bit better having a tad more 'oomph.' Dave

RE Fleming · Post by **RE Fleming** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:31 pm

I always had best luck with RWS 25. We had some Remington "standard velocity" that was way too hot.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:29 pm

I have used CCI CB for practice in my OSP but prefer the Fiocchi or Aguilla for matches. As a previous responder mentioned, the CCI CB (in which the only propellant is the priming mixture) does show random flyers.
When I used the higher velocity CCI Short target I replaced the plastic OSP cocking piece with a metal one from an old GSP.

TargetTalk

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