Is it possible to de-cock a Morini CM84E ?
Just pulling the trigger on a empty chamber does not sound like a good idea to me, especially for a rim-fire firearm.
Thanks.
How to decock a Morini CM84E
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I would suggest that to leave any case in the gun is not a good idea. It would be all too easy to become accustomed to seeing a brass case in a pistol and assume that it is 'empty'.Misny wrote:I agree that dropping the firing pin on a .22 rimfire is not a good idea. You have a couple of options. You can leave the last fired case in the gun. You can buy "snap caps". You can buy plastic wall anchors for screws of the appropriate size and use them as snap caps.
There is (VERY) good reason why ISSF 8.2.5.2 includes "and there are no cartridges or pellets in the chamber or magazine".
The most common plastic dummy rounds available in the US are orange. They are made from a moderately brittle plastic, and the rim can chip from firing pin impact and then they can drop little plastic bits into the action. I'd love to find a source for similar rounds that are made from something tougher. The ones I have are these:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ ... T-TRAINERS
They also seem a bit over priced. The main thing I use them for is magazine loading drills for beginners, loading demonstrations and such. They really don't work well as snap-caps.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ ... T-TRAINERS
They also seem a bit over priced. The main thing I use them for is magazine loading drills for beginners, loading demonstrations and such. They really don't work well as snap-caps.
That's a different style from the Saf-T-Trainers. They might be worth a try. The only thing that bugs me is the claim that they have an internal spring, which is clearly only for the center fire sizes. Presumably that's just somebody at Midway not paying much attention.
They've been around a while, I found a 2003 posting in another forum, but they didn't say how well they hold up to dry firing. Midway's price is pretty good. I found one site that wanted almost $7 for 10, and $10 for 25. Midway is charging ~ 35 cents each. I also found one site that described them as "soft", which sounds much better than the Saf-T-Trainers. Another claims they are "High Impact Polymer".
Next time I order from Midway, I think I'll try some if no one reports having a problem with them.
They've been around a while, I found a 2003 posting in another forum, but they didn't say how well they hold up to dry firing. Midway's price is pretty good. I found one site that wanted almost $7 for 10, and $10 for 25. Midway is charging ~ 35 cents each. I also found one site that described them as "soft", which sounds much better than the Saf-T-Trainers. Another claims they are "High Impact Polymer".
Next time I order from Midway, I think I'll try some if no one reports having a problem with them.
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Fred
Hey Gwhite,
Before you order them, read the product reviews on the same webpage. The 2 and 1/2 star rating is very misleading. Two people rated at 5 stars but three said they were junk (and explained why). I have tried a similar looking product (years ago - don't remember the brand) and been unimpressed as well.
HTH,
FredB
Before you order them, read the product reviews on the same webpage. The 2 and 1/2 star rating is very misleading. Two people rated at 5 stars but three said they were junk (and explained why). I have tried a similar looking product (years ago - don't remember the brand) and been unimpressed as well.
HTH,
FredB
The firing pin on the free pistol is a heavy tapered pin which can be safely fired "dry" with the breech closed with no damage to pin or barrel.
However do not activate the trigger with the loading lever up or partly up as you will snap the lug off the side of the firing pin eventually.
However do not activate the trigger with the loading lever up or partly up as you will snap the lug off the side of the firing pin eventually.
- Attachments
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- note the taper on the front of the pin.
- Broken Firing Pin.GIF (18.86 KiB) Viewed 3946 times
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Steve Swartz
David:
What you say is true. And I have broken firing pins (resulting in peening of chamber face) on a match-grade Hi-Standard and a plain old Ruger pistol. Both are designed as you describe- and both firing pins broke at the shoulder where they are designed to stop forward movement with no case in the chamber. Sigh. When it happened on my Ruger, I didn't care much . . . but when it happened on the $$$ Hi-Standard, I began using snap caps. Both instances resulted from what the factory people said was "excessive" dry firing and therefore not covered under warranty. Even though the owner's manuals said dry firing was o.k. Excessive was about 50 snaps a day over about a year or so . . .
Interestingly enough- my Morini manual is absolutely silent on the matter.
Steve Swartz
What you say is true. And I have broken firing pins (resulting in peening of chamber face) on a match-grade Hi-Standard and a plain old Ruger pistol. Both are designed as you describe- and both firing pins broke at the shoulder where they are designed to stop forward movement with no case in the chamber. Sigh. When it happened on my Ruger, I didn't care much . . . but when it happened on the $$$ Hi-Standard, I began using snap caps. Both instances resulted from what the factory people said was "excessive" dry firing and therefore not covered under warranty. Even though the owner's manuals said dry firing was o.k. Excessive was about 50 snaps a day over about a year or so . . .
Interestingly enough- my Morini manual is absolutely silent on the matter.
Steve Swartz
Decocking Vs Dry firing
I think some are missing the point.
Firing to de-cock (let off the spring) you should only have to do once or twice a match.
The electronic trigger can be dry fired multiple times with no wear or damage. You do not have to cock the pistol to dry fire.
Firing to de-cock (let off the spring) you should only have to do once or twice a match.
The electronic trigger can be dry fired multiple times with no wear or damage. You do not have to cock the pistol to dry fire.
Re: Decocking Vs Dry firing
That's correct. But is it safe to do it without a snap cap or a dummy round?
David M wrote:I think some are missing the point.
Firing to de-cock (let off the spring) you should only have to do once or twice a match.
The electronic trigger can be dry fired multiple times with no wear or damage. You do not have to cock the pistol to dry fire.
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Steve Swartz
Back to the original thread (the Morini CM84E)
1) You can't "decock"
2) When putting the gun away, you can either drop the hammer or leave it cocked
a) If leaving cocked, firing pin spring remains compressed and then you have a cocked gun when you takie it out of the case next time
b) If dropping hammer, can drop on empty chamber or chamber with some kind of snap cap/fired case
c) Hammer must drop at least once before you get to dry fire
3) During a match, there is no way (well, difficault at least) to leave tghe firing point (with loading gatge open per rules) and then come back to resume shooting and start dry firing without dropping hammer at least once (see 2) above)
Therefore- as much as I love my electronic Morini- this seems to be a "feature flaw" in the design. Especially when the manual doesn't say a single word about dropping the hammer on empty cylinder.
How much "dry firing" is excessive for the CM 84E? Electronic dry firing, no problem (as David noted). How many times can you drop the hammer on an empty chamber though?
Never? Once or twice per session? 5-6 times a match?
I am currently assuming that "Never" is the right answer.
Steve
1) You can't "decock"
2) When putting the gun away, you can either drop the hammer or leave it cocked
a) If leaving cocked, firing pin spring remains compressed and then you have a cocked gun when you takie it out of the case next time
b) If dropping hammer, can drop on empty chamber or chamber with some kind of snap cap/fired case
c) Hammer must drop at least once before you get to dry fire
3) During a match, there is no way (well, difficault at least) to leave tghe firing point (with loading gatge open per rules) and then come back to resume shooting and start dry firing without dropping hammer at least once (see 2) above)
Therefore- as much as I love my electronic Morini- this seems to be a "feature flaw" in the design. Especially when the manual doesn't say a single word about dropping the hammer on empty cylinder.
How much "dry firing" is excessive for the CM 84E? Electronic dry firing, no problem (as David noted). How many times can you drop the hammer on an empty chamber though?
Never? Once or twice per session? 5-6 times a match?
I am currently assuming that "Never" is the right answer.
Steve
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Steve,
I'm with ya most of the way through your last post. But I'll pull out the red bandana and wave it in front of you now. (Tauro!... Tauro!) *wink*
You may wish to switch to dry fire at any time during a match, for any number of reasons. This is perfectly normal, accepted and almost expected. You would be taking a risk in dropping the firing pin on an empty chamber, so this is something of a flaw, but it is a flaw shared by every FP I've ever seen. But the work-around is SO easy it's not even funny!
In my box of trinkets that goes to every match and sits on my shooting bench, I have a few empty brass for each of my FP's. That way I can drop the firing pin on an empty brass cartridge case and safely dry-fire during prep time, or any other time for that matter. If I have to open the breech for any reason you may do so, and then resume dry firing after dipping into the little stash of empty cases kept in your shooting kit for just such an eventuality.
This isn't rocket science, and I do exactly the same thing for the other FP's that I own or have owned. The only exception to this rule is when boxing the gun for airline transport - then I have no choice but to drop the firing pin on an empty chamber.
After talking to Francesco about this he told me they rarely see broken firing pins. The pic that Davide Moore so kindly posted highlights the most common cause of breakage - dropping the firing pin with the breech not fully closed. Francesco's recommendation to me was to always use an empty cartridge case. So far it has worked well for me! (Of course, my little box of goodies that sits on the shooting bench carries a spare firing pin and spring, as well as a complete spare breech block, just in case!).
I'm with ya most of the way through your last post. But I'll pull out the red bandana and wave it in front of you now. (Tauro!... Tauro!) *wink*
You may wish to switch to dry fire at any time during a match, for any number of reasons. This is perfectly normal, accepted and almost expected. You would be taking a risk in dropping the firing pin on an empty chamber, so this is something of a flaw, but it is a flaw shared by every FP I've ever seen. But the work-around is SO easy it's not even funny!
In my box of trinkets that goes to every match and sits on my shooting bench, I have a few empty brass for each of my FP's. That way I can drop the firing pin on an empty brass cartridge case and safely dry-fire during prep time, or any other time for that matter. If I have to open the breech for any reason you may do so, and then resume dry firing after dipping into the little stash of empty cases kept in your shooting kit for just such an eventuality.
This isn't rocket science, and I do exactly the same thing for the other FP's that I own or have owned. The only exception to this rule is when boxing the gun for airline transport - then I have no choice but to drop the firing pin on an empty chamber.
After talking to Francesco about this he told me they rarely see broken firing pins. The pic that Davide Moore so kindly posted highlights the most common cause of breakage - dropping the firing pin with the breech not fully closed. Francesco's recommendation to me was to always use an empty cartridge case. So far it has worked well for me! (Of course, my little box of goodies that sits on the shooting bench carries a spare firing pin and spring, as well as a complete spare breech block, just in case!).
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Spencer,
While that rule reads true and its intent is good, it falls a bit short on the practical application. I have at international events had range officials supervise me as I inserted an empty cartridge into the chamber and decocked the pistol in that manner. This is very much a normal process with free pistols.
BUT, if somebody insists that you can't leave an empty cartridge in the chamber then drop the firing pin on an empty chamber. You have little option, and there likely will be no negative effects if it's done on an infrequent basis. To make this practice "normal" every time one wants to begin dry-firing would be to invite eventual failure. The firing pin on the CM84 isn't that expensive, so carrying a spare and knowing how to change it isn't that big a deal.
While that rule reads true and its intent is good, it falls a bit short on the practical application. I have at international events had range officials supervise me as I inserted an empty cartridge into the chamber and decocked the pistol in that manner. This is very much a normal process with free pistols.
BUT, if somebody insists that you can't leave an empty cartridge in the chamber then drop the firing pin on an empty chamber. You have little option, and there likely will be no negative effects if it's done on an infrequent basis. To make this practice "normal" every time one wants to begin dry-firing would be to invite eventual failure. The firing pin on the CM84 isn't that expensive, so carrying a spare and knowing how to change it isn't that big a deal.