Have you flown with an AP cylinder recently?

[Bruce Martindale]

I wrote my senator and he received a letter from the TSA saying no way not no how. My airport Albany NY has turned shooters with air rifles away.

I want to go to the Nationals: I can UPS it to the hotel in Columbus but mailing it back is a hassle.

Are there any problems with a cylinder at Atlanta?

Is this a non issue elsewhere in the USA?

Maybe I just drive but that is a hassle too.

thansk in advance

[jrmcdaniel]

For shooters with rifles at recent airgun Field Target matches, hardly anyone had a problem. Part of that may be that rifles are seen as being less dangerous than pistols. Also, most of these rifles have quick-fill adapters on the tanks and ship with only one tank.

I suggest either packing the spare tank in your luggage or sending it by FedEx. Having a single, attached tank does not seem to raise as much interest. Also, I would declare a firearm -- then they worry mostly about whether it is unloaded and not whether you have a tank that might contain something toxic. Some of the high-power guns look a lot like a 10M rifle these days.

If you ship the other tank, you could take along a mailer and send your attached tank back home in case you do have a problem.

Best,

Joe

[F. Paul in Denver]

I'm flying to Salt Lake next week and see no need to take any chances -
I've mailed the cylinder to the match director.

When the match is over, I'll put the cylinder in a postage paid, pre addressed USPS priority mailing box I took with me and mail it back to myself.

A bit of a hassle but on balance it's better than trying to predict what the hell TSA will do.

F. Paul in Denver

[Neil Foster]

DO NOT, DO NOT put an empty air cylinder in your checked baggage. I fly out of Atlanta to the OTC a few times a year. I always ship the cylinders to the OTC. Every airport seems to have different rules of their own. Colorado Springs says it is OK have the air cylinder attached to the gun (in my case air pistol) as long as it is empty. But you can not put a spare in your checked bags. Although not classified by BATF as a firearm, you must declare an air gun at the airline ticket counter. You ask for an unloaded weapons declaration, a red tag you sign and put in with the gun. If you have it in your regular bag that you check in, it must be in a hard sided case (the original hard plastic case is ok) and LOCKED with a lock that you have a key or combination for. Do not use one of the TSA approved locks that they can open. I have an aluminum carry case I use that has provision for two locks. It also has a heavy duty nylon cover over the aluminum case (so it does not yell GUN) This has a TSA approved lock on it. They (TSA) will take the case and either xray it (Atlanta does this) or an agent will manually examine the case and contents (Colorado Springs does this) scan it for explosives. Another suggestion, usually the TSA agent asks "where are the bullets?" I explain it is a pellet gun and the pellets are in my checked bag(s). Do not try to carry any pellets as carry on. You probably will have them taken and trashed. USA Shooting has a comprehensive article on the web site about travel with an air gun. Believe it or not it is easier to travel with my free pistol than the Steyr. I am planning to go to shoot the Nationals at Ft. Benning, you can if you like ship them to me and I will glady bring them down for you (I live in the Atlanta area). The problem with putting an empty cylinder in your checked bag by itself is that if the TSA scanners X-ray the bag, you can imagine what they would think of an empty cylinder with parts inside could be. Remember who you are dealing with. In some cases they would be hard pressed to qualify for a job flipping hamburgers! :-) Another thing to do is download from the TSA web site the list of prohibited and allowed items in baggage. Keep a copy with you, and a copy int the case where the air gun might be. I believe that USA Shooting has a link to the TSA site. Good Luck, it is a real pain, so we have to deal with it. At least you can check it in.
Neil

[cdf]

Why doesn't some enterprising soul modify existing cylinders so that the distal end can be unscrewed ? I would gladly sacrifice the manometer on one of mine , in the interests of easy travel .

Chris

[Neil Foster]

Because you are dealing with a pressure vessel that can be charged to 200 Bar. That is why you can not just unscrew it.

[Bill Poole]

USAShooting and Pilkguns and a coupla other interested coaches and shooters evaluated and xray'd cyclinders and PROVED that cylinders CAN be inspected with existing equipment, and created a well written presentation on the subject.

the presentation is at http://www.usashooting.com/modules.php? ... =0&thold=0
maybe...

no, its not there any more, Bob Mitchell has the master copy.

anyway

for TSA to claim they cannot inspect air cylinders is a LIE and an abuse of power!

we ALL must go meet with both senators and our representative and get this ruling changed,

we must remind the congressmen that TSA has ALREADY provided anUNACCEPTABLE response, we are not INQUIRING what the policy is, we are DEMANDING that the policy be corrected!!!!

apparently this and other bureacracy react to congressional inquiries. so we must all contact congress NOW

I pity the guys getting on Toronto bound airplanes today and tomorrow

Poole

[jhmartin]

I know that this weekend in S Cprings at the OTF they are having the JROTC Air Rifle Western Match.

A few of the Albuquerque coaches that drove up today took all the extra cylinders for CO2 and Air that they could scrounge as they have received calls that TSA was being a pain and they could not get the cylinders to Colorado in time.

[Nicole Hamilton]

I was appalled that the rules had changed so I decided to check. It's true. You can take an airgun on a plane, but you cannot take the compressed air or CO2 cylinder needed to make it work.

The TSA has posted a list of Permitted and Prohibited Items which says you can travel with a compressed air gun in checked luggage (page 4). But compressed gas cylinders are prohibited anywhere on the plane (page 5.) No exception is made for a compressed air cylinder that's part of an airgun.

The document contains a TSA email address (TSA-ContactCenter@dhs.gov), so I wrote to ask for clarification. Here's what I got back (emphasis added):

Paintball guns and compressed air guns are similar, in that they both use CO2 cartridges. These guns are allowed without the cartridge in checked baggage only.

Some paintball gear can be transported on-board the aircraft. Please refer to the guidelines below:

Markers (aka Paintball Guns) are prohibited from carry-on luggage. These items should be packed in checked luggage. Paintball guns are not considered a firearm and may be transported in unlocked, soft or hard sided luggage.

Compressed gas cylinders are allowed in checked baggage or as a carry-on ONLY if the regulator valve is completely disconnected from the cylinder and the cylinder is no longer sealed (i.e. the cylinder has an open end). The cylinder must have an opening to allow for a visual inspection inside. TSA Security Screeners will NOT remove the seal/regulator valve from the cylinder at the checkpoint. If the cylinder is sealed (i.e. the regulator valve is still attached), the cylinder is prohibited and not permitted through the security checkpoint, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator. TSA Security Screeners must visibly ensure that the cylinder is completely empty and that there are no prohibited items inside.

Please note: Many of the seals/regulators used in paintball are not designed to be removed from their cylinder by the end user. The seal/regulator should only be removed and reinstalled by a factory trained technician.

Passengers considering air travel with a compressed air or CO2 system would be advised to contact its manufacturer for guidance in locating a qualified technician, or to consider shipping the system to their destination via a parcel service.

Looks to me like anyone who got a whole airgun, including the cylinder, on the plane was just plain lucky. Not just lucky they got it on, lucky they still have it!

[RobStubbs]

Well all I can say is thank god the rest of the world isn't so anal as the US with this regard. When it's easier to carry live ammunition than it is an empty air cylinder then somethings gone wrong.

Rob.

[Bruce Martindale]

Thanks for the update, it confirms what I was afraid of. I CAN NOT depend on being "lucky" and I am not satisfied with a don't ask don't tell" policy. I will continue to work with my state NRA reps to address this. Is the NRA doing anything? The NY reps were not even aware of it.

Neil thank you for your kind offer, please send me a message with your address, email and phone so we can coordinate. F Paul has also offer help getting to COS. So I am ready tp play again!


best regards to all

[Nicole Hamilton]

Realistically, it may not matter that you can't take a whole airgun, including the air cylinder you need to make it work, on a plane. The airlines have gotten so unreliable with luggage in the last few years, you'd likely be a fool to check anything so valuable anyway, I suppose.

But before you ship it by Fedex or similar service instead, a small piece of advice: They lose stuff, too, but it looks like it happens to them when the box comes open. If you use any of their free boxes with the peel-off strips covering the adhesive, don't trust the adhesive, which can and does pop open. Tape it closed as well!

(I have a small software business and use Fedex a lot, so I have some experience. On the whole, they're very reliable, but if a box comes open at one of their sorting facilities, they just collect up whatever they find -- which may only be part of the contents -- put it in another box and send it on its way. They don't tell either the sender or the recipient this has happened unless someone calls to complain, hey, not everything got there.)

[F. Paul in Denver]

My offer to Bruce extends to ANYONE who is travelling to the OTC in Colorado Springs for an air competition that I also plan to attend. Just email me ahead of time and let me know you'll be sending something my way and I'll be happy to deliver it to you.

F. Paul in Denver


paul@figlialaw.com

[pilkguns in bavaria]

I don't know of anyone who has had a problem with an airgun cylinder attached to the guns. In fact, TSA policy has stated permission for airguns. See the USAS site for the link. Its only the footprint of the loose cylinder that makes the TSA folks get edgy.

So fly with your cylinder attached, it should be no problem. If you feel need a second one, send it ahead by mail if you are in the US, well insured of course.

Most rifle shooters only have one cylinder anyway, so the need of a second cylinder is really a non issue in my opinion. The liklihood of a cylinder ceasing to function is almost impossible so one should be plenty.

regarding writing your Congressman/Senators.... I sent all 3 of mine, (all of whom are Republicans and strong pro-gun people) the presentation that myself, Bill Poole Bob Mitchell and few others worked. This was Sept of 05. Very impressive presentation IMHO!!!!!! To date I have not heard one word from any of them, which is really unbelieavable to me.

[Guest]

Unfortunately my experience with my congressman is exactly the same. He is very pro gun, runs as a proud NRA member. Five months after contact with his legislative assistant, no reply to an inquiry requesting a status update, nothing. I'm contemplating sending him a letter thanking him for ignoring the importance of this problem and a promise of full reciprocation next November.
It seems if you can't bribe them with PAC money, or cold cash, you only count every other November.
Perhaps in the future all reqests of this type should be sent to the real power brokers in D.C., the Gucci loafer and designer suit set over on K Street.