which one is the best? LP10 or 162MI? 162EI

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:13 am

Do any other air pistols use ball bearings on the trigger pivot shafts as Morini does?

Bull · Post by **Bull** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:44 pm

Yes, bbsII, you have experienced what most owner of the Walther 300 lern the hard way: the trigger of the ap 300 is a mediocre one.
Please, helt me bring this important information out to the shooting public! To bad people spend big dollars for a gun that suffers from an poorly constructed trigger unit.

And "cdf", you are right, the long Morinis are less forgiving. I own and shoot Steyr, FWB, Matchgun, Morini, and I notice the (long barreled) Morinis asks you to "follow through". The cause, I believe is longer "reaction time", i.e. time from trigger release to the pellet leaving the barrel. I have put in a short barrel , and i just think the Morini became a bit more forgiving.
The FWB 40 is in my opinion the most forgiving ap. It translates to fast reastion time, i guess.

About the "creepy" Steyr triggers. These triggers can be "smoothed" or tuned to perfection by a skilled and experienced technician. All Steyr guns of the better international ap-competitors have got a "trigger job".

Axel · Post by **Axel** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:46 pm

RobStubbs wrote:
Axel wrote:
David Levene wrote:
cdf wrote:The 162M makes as much sense as alcohol free Scotch .
Not necessarily. If you like the balance and general feel of the Morini but need more grip angle adjustment than is available from the 162E then the 162M may be the way to go.
Grips are adjusted with a dremel and plastic padding.
Not to any great extent they aren't with the electronic. There is very little spare wood in the grip so mr dremmel can only be used with caution. You also cannot alter the grip angle for the same reason.

Rob.

Adjustable grips are a nice feature, but absolutly not a neccesity. There is enough room for adjustments with dremel and putty with the Morini electronic grip.

I think that adjustable grips can be confusing for beginners. To many variables can make life complicated. Instead of focusing on the fundamentals it is easy to get lost with details instead. Keep it simple!

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:36 pm

Bull:

Shorter total dwell time does not make a gun "more forgiving." Check previous threads on same topic over last few years.

Consider that in order for your statement to be true (shorter dwell time = more forgiving) it would also have to be true that you are releasing the shot when the muzzle is pointed perfectly; therefore, 0 dwell time = perfect shot and any non zero dwell time = muzzle pointed further away from perfect. Otherwise, longer dwell time might give your muzzle that extra pause needed to get lined up even better, no? Given identical hold patterns, shorter, longer, makes no difference. Your brain will figure out the dwell time and use what works best.

All modern match firearms (including muzzle loading flintlocks, to use a very extreme example!) have total dwell times that are just fine for shooting tens all day long.

100 ms is no better than 1000 ms . . . it's the *predictability* (no "+-") or consistency of that total dwell time that really matters.

(OBTW, are you really certain that the total dwell time on an electronic Morini is *longer* than a mechanical Steyr?)

Steve Swartz

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:40 am

Am I the only one getting tired of all the pussy-footing around the question? Okay, if no one else wants to say it, I will: There really is a best AP. Everyone knows it's the LP10P. It's not even close. All that stuff about some of those other guns being a matter of taste ... well, even when I say it, it's just to be polite in case someone on the list was actually silly enough to buy one.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:21 am

Nicole,
You're wrong.

When Steyr puts an electronic trigger in the LP10, then it'll be the best.
Or if Morini puts some muzzle flip/recoil reduction in their pistol, it'll be the best.

Until then its a shootout between the LP10 and the Morini electronic!!

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:29 am

Oh, my. So you're one of those people who screwed up and didn't know to buy an LP10? I'm so sorry. But everyone knows the entire list of the best of EVERYTHING has been settled for years. Best gun, best rifle, best car, best movie, best BBQ, best country/western singer, best cup of coffee, the whole works. It's over. Just ask.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:35 am

How about sticking to the subject and offering some reasoned arguments.

By the way, which is the best coffee?

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:37 am

Come visit. I'll make one for you.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:42 am

Love to, but I'm afraid the many miles hinder me!!

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:50 am

Nicole Hamilton wrote:Okay, if no one else wants to say it, I will: There really is a best AP. Everyone knows it's the LP10P. It's not even close.

And your evidence for this claim is.................................

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:04 am

You, too? See, in many parts of the world, there's this concept called humor, so that when you say something obviously absurd, people know you can't really be serious and they laugh.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:17 am

btw i read an interview with yifu wang (wasnt it on this site?) where he explicitly says he prefers the morini for the electronic trigger. Another poster said he used Steyr at the olympics...which statement is true?

I will buy exactly the same gun he owns, including color and serial number, then i cant shoot anything but 10's too.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:18 am

Nicole Hamilton wrote:You, too? See, in many parts of the world, there's this concept called humor, so that when you say something obviously absurd, people know you can't really be serious and they laugh.

But some people so frequently say things that are obviously absurd it is impossible to tell when they are being serious ;^)

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:22 am

Humor on Target Talk !?

How refreshing :-)

David M · Post by **David M** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:57 pm

What a good discussion, just like the arguments between Ford and GM.

Try adding this to the fire, both pistols are not perfect.

With the release of the then new LP10 a lot of World Cup level shooters who shot Styer changed from the LP1 to the 10, (helped by good deals from the factory).
For the next two or three years the LP10 was shot in high numbers at World Cups and the Sydney Olympics.
Between Sydney and Athens a lot of shooters realized the porting and recoil reduction really did very little and went back to the LP1. There are now a very large number of Styer shooters using LP1 again.

The original Morini was a fixed tank pistol, then came the removable tanks. It was always a nose heavy pistol with a long barrel and big tank, but the best bit is the trigger. The electronic trigger is the best on the market.
But the limitation was that the electronics restrict the grip adjustments.
The loading system of the Morini was easier to use than the Styer.
The long barrel and big tank allowed the velocity to be stepped up from the old CO2 and pump guns, so the felt recoil was greater.
Later came the Morini short, if you lay the short over a Styer, trigger to trigger the layout foresight, rear sight, sight radius, and balance are almost identical.

So, which is the best gun, neither (in factory form).

What would be ideal would be the new LP2 for loading system, balance, adjustability and tool less sights. Fitted with the Morini Electronic trigger.

What do I shoot, a Morini short with milling machine altered grip angle, reduced velocity (machine rest tested 138-142m/s)and no weights. It gives me the best of both worlds, it is not a beginners forgiving gun because of its very light weight. Any wrong deed on the trigger will shoot poorly but a good shot is smack in the guts.

It has seen a few World cups, Olympics, Commonwealth Games and holds our National and State records, so I will vote for it.

P.S. The big secret is to go through your tin of pellets and find all the 8's and 7's in the tin and take them out before you fire them (give them to your partner or best mate).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:55 pm

David, do you shoot heavy or light pellets at this speed?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:09 pm

Anonymous wrote:Nicole,
You're wrong.

Or if Morini puts some muzzle flip/recoil reduction in their pistol, it'll be the best.

Until then its a shootout between the LP10 and the Morini electronic!!

OK - I really dont get it. How does the reduction of muzzle flip/recoil improve an AP's performance??

David M · Post by **David M** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:10 pm

R 10 , weight 0.53g and 4.49 dia.
The best pellet for your pistol you will have to determine using a machine rest.

aurorapolice02_11 · Post by **aurorapolice02_11** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:19 pm

I have stated this before...APs do not recoil. They push back a little, but the front sight does not flip up. If your technique is strong your sights will stay aligned when the shot breaks. This can be done with an LP1!!!

Erich Buljung and I got into it once about recoil. He then had me shoot into the backstop and do it with a full tin of pellets. He said when the gun doesn't move as the shots breaks, then the technique is smooth.

Recoil absorbers are a gimmick. Don't believe me, shoot 500 shots into a backstop with a smooth trigger technique and see what the front sight does. If it moves, you did it, not the gun.

Mike Douglass

TargetTalk

which one is the best? LP10 or 162MI? 162EI

Lousy Walther ap 300 triggers

Yifu Wang

Recoil on an AP???