Caution to Hammerli SP20 .32 owners.

[PaulT]

At least two of our Hammerli SP20.32 calibre pistols now have cracked slides and four have experienced cracked frames from a population of six. The worrying bit is the fact that ALL have only ever shot factory ammunition and ALL have only been shot for less then 20 days a year and ALL pistols are less than five years old!

The remaining kit is being carefully inspected this week not only for pre-season due diligence bit also to find spares for our shooters to compete in the commonwealth Games!

As most know, GBR shooters shoot from Central Europe with funding out of our own pockets. We are writing to the factory requesting that given the exceptionally light duty these pistols have been put, they favourably consider replacing the defective components without charge. All kit has been well maintained and regularly serviced by ex-Hammerli technicians.

Also worryingly, the factory do not have any spares and the lead time is several weeks!

Recoil buffers are very expensive and preventative maintenance of replacing buffer screws (thanks David L this has saved a lot of cash!) is a regular cost for very irregular shooting.

I will post pictures of the issues when I return from the next training session this weekend.

We would be interested to know if any other owners have had similar issues?

[The outfitter]

Paul, are these Haemmerlies the very same pistols the UK centerfirepistol team used in Finland a couple of years ago?

To my knowledge, Haemmerli 20 frames in .22 version are prone to cracking too.

Guys, you have been "guinea pigged" by Haemmerli.

[PaulT]

Yes, these were the ones used in Finland!

[EdStevens]

Hi, Paul!

Three of us at the range where I shoot have Hammerli SP-20s; myself and one other the original SP-20, and the third an SP-20 RRS. All three of us shoot the guns for .22 and .32 swapping barrels and receivers. All three of us have had cracked frames (the crack occurs in where the frame is extremely thin at the front of the ejection port, near the bottom). They have both experienced cracked barrels on more than one occasion, in both .22 and .32, along the extension leading to the "ears" for manual cocking. All three of us have had the recoil buffer screw break, again on multiple occasions for them.

In all instances the Hammerli dealer has coordinated repairs for us at no charge. Obviously the frustration is considerable. I seem to have had better luck with fewer breakages than them. If you check my posts you will see that I have posted on this board several times regarding these issues over the past couple of years.

I have noticed that Hammerli has added a reinforcing strip to the frame where it cracks and I have not had a problem since, but knock on wood! I don't trust it not to crack again. One of the other shooters has since purchased a Feinwerkbau and uses it instead of the Hammerli for .22 since he is just fed up. I imagine he will replace the .32 with another gun in the future when he can afford it.

The guns shoot great but are delicate. I trust that Hammerli will stand behind their product for you.

[Kenmore]

It is not the same Hammerli anymore.
Hammerli does not "stand behind" their Traiside with cracked frames.

[PaulT]

After arriving in central Europe and inspecting my SP20 slide and that of my team mate, I have to confess that I am very disappointed to see the two longitudinal cracks from the breach end. Both slides have cracks in different places so it is not a single join or common design fault, the issue is clearly more fundamental. In both cases, the cracks are in the main fabric of the slide rendering it unsafe and obviously unsuitable for competition. Fortunately, I have my own new Pardini pistols to shoot and my team colleague is borrowing another team members SP20 pistol slide for his major competition about a month away. The apparent lack of factory stock for some six weeks rises grave support issues, our remaining SP20 owners are understandably concerned as carrying spare pistols incurs significant cost for airline and temporary permit transportation not to mention the loss of confidence in Hammerli to support their products.

I will now formally write to the Hammerli factory regarding these cracked frames and also my two cracked Hammerli grips. Other team members also have component inventory issues that I will aggregate. I hope that these matters are resolved promptly and without additional cost or inconvenience. I will report back to this forum with the outcome. Many thanks to others who have taken the trouble to post and to contact me directly regarding their own team experiences.

[Francesco]

Dear Paul,
It looks strange that we (Morini) reply to a post for Hämmerli but because we are talking about people in the national team (UK) and also because I have helped many times my chinese shooting friends to keep contact with Hämmerli for spare parts (they are never at competitions for servicing) I will try to help you as well. Try to contact Roger Geissbühler (www.schiesssport.ch). He was the last good gunsmith at Hämmerli and the only remained that can fix allmost any Hämmerli (and he has spareparts to), he was also the official gunsmith at CISM in Thun. Otherwise try to contact Mr. Caputi Pasquale (Pasquale.Caputi@haemmerli.ch). Try to call him at Hämmerli if you don't get answer from e-mail because he make bob slide for Italy and now he has to train for the olympics. He his the only one that can help and answer you. Tell him that you contact me (Repich Francesco) and recived all information from me. If you are going to write to Hämmerli I am not sure that somebody will answer you.
Good Luck for the Games in Melbourne.

[GGM1]

I purchased a 22LR SP20 RSS about 3-months ago. I have been shooting about 6 to 8 boxes a week. I really like this pistol. I am very concerned about the cracked fram reports on this site. Spoke with Larry Carter and he stated he has not seen this problem with cracked frames. Is this a problem only associated with the .32? I welcome all comments.

[Axel]

I've heard about cracked frames with .22 aswell, in fact from one guy in my shooting club. But it is a very nice gun, a top model just as Pardini, FWB and others. Just shoot tens, dont worry about cracked frames... ;-)

[Fortitudo Dei]

At least two of our Hammerli SP20.32 calibre pistols now have cracked slides and four have experienced cracked frames from a population of six. The worrying bit is the fact that ALL have only ever shot factory ammunition...

This could be exasperating the problem of a possible design flaw in the SP20. Factory loaded .32 ammunition (e.g. Lapua .32 WC) is generally quite a bit hotter than what most shooters will reload for their .32 semi-autos. I normally don't reload more than 1.3 grains, and although I have never measured the powder content or the bullet velocity of factory loaded .32, I can really feel a much greater "kick" when using Lapua over my home-reloaded rounds.

[F. Paul in Denver]

Fortitudo,

I have taken apart several rounds of Lapua .32 ammo and each one measures 1.5 grains of powder. The powder looks EXACTLY like VVN310.

However, I am told that the powder in Lapua ammo is not 310 but some special in house blend that Lapua does not sell to the public. Initially I was skeptical about this information but it came someone who I consider reliable.

When I reload Lapua bullets (98 gr) with 1.5 grains of 310, I get nearly the identical chrono results as the Lapua factory ammo - about 760 FPS.


I have heard from a Canadian shooter (Claudio) regarding his findings on the Lapua factory ammo. He found 1.5 grains also.


Paul

[Mike T.]

Fiocchi, on the other hand, chronos about 100 fps less than Lapua. Definitely a much "softer" feel to the former in my SP20.

[James Hurr]

Looking at http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com, the standard loading for 98gr HBWC 0.32SW+L is 1.4 grains N310

I would think this is what Lapua use, as the companies are linked, although my experience of Lapua HBWC is they are undersize and very soft so there is not much bullet 'pull'.

I had always understood the standard Lapua loading was 1.7gr N310.

[F. Paul in Denver]

James,

Can we be sure that what Vihtavouri is suggesting as a recipe for reloading is exactly the same as they put in their commerical ammo?? I wouldnt be surprised if there is a difference.

Paul

[GOVTMODEL]

However, I am told that the powder in Lapua ammo is not 310 but some special in house blend that Lapua does not sell to the public. Initially I was skeptical about this information but it came someone who I consider reliable.


Paul

In the course of my work I wound up talking to a/the primer chemist at Federal, and when the business part of the call was complete I asked him what the factory load for GM45B (.45 Auto Match) is. He said, there isn't one.

When asked to clarify what he meant, he said that the factory uses bulk powders not available to handloaders that they blend with their own additives to get the desired pressure versus time curve, which they have the capability of measuring.

[F. Paul in Denver]

GOVTMODEL:

That's very similar to what I heard quoted about the Vihtavuori folks.


And one more thing to add - according to the Vihtavuori Reloading Manual (3rd. edition), the recommended load for the .32 with a 98 gr bullet is 1.5 grains of VVN310. I'm not so sure that .1 of a grain makes much of a difference.

[David M]

When are you guys going to learn, you are playing with fire by sprouting around load details when you dont really know the details.

Your best friend in reloading is a chronograph and a loading manual.
Start with known components, look up the manual for a load, download by 10% and check velocity and for signs of high pressure.
Work your way up to a desired load very carefully.

There are too many variables to just sprout a load, case type, overall length, different bullet hardness, primers, case neck tension,powder storage life etc, etc, not to mention being shot in different guns.

For a .32 HBWC I will load for 720-780 fps.

For goodness sake be very carefull with your loads.

[James Hurr]

Start with known components, look up the manual for a load, download by 10% and check velocity and for signs of high pressure.
Work your way up to a desired load very carefully.

That would always be the case, its always worth repeating so thanks. We do need a starting point, which is the factory data.

You do need to be careful if the Vit data, particularly the magnum loads which are right on the limit.

720-760 sounds a little slow to me, I used to get better consistency around 780-800 fps.

I don't doubt Lapua would adjust the load for each batch of powder, as would any manufacturer, and their commercial load may not be the same as stated in the manual.

If I were manufacturing powder I would not bother to make something special just for my own ammo. My guess would be they just batch test the powder and keep the best for themselves. Maybe thats what the 'W' in WN310 means.

[Guest]

Gee thanks David - before you came along, who would ever have guessed that using the manufacturers load data is a good idea. If you read the most recent posts on this thread, that's precisely what we have been doing.

Lose the tone, we arent children.

[Tycho]

Yeah, especially those who go for 1.7grs of V310 behind a 100grs HBWC. That will give you about 250-260 m/s in most guns, which is far too much for these upgraded .22s. For my part, I shoot .32s as slow as possible (210-22 m/s) and try to get the precision be very exact seating and crimping, which works pretty well - at least I didn't have any .32 come apart on me yet, in 12 years. Besides, that the SP20 has a vibration problem is not exactly news, we knew that in 1998. It even occurs in the .22 version. Why do you guess so many CISM shooters try to get their hands on late series 280s for MRF?