I practice dry fire on paper targets , blank wall , vertical and horozontal lines . The front sight etc doesn't seem to budge , everything looks pretty good . When it comes to a live shot , either at home or on the range things go to pot . Snatching , pushing the whole ball of wax . Any ideas greatfully accepted .
Chris
Any ideas ?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
-
Luft Gewehr
Anatoliy Piddubnyy
"First, forget aiming as an independent process; let the trigger action be your priority.
Second, trust your stability, which is always better than it seems.
Third, when lowering the pistol to the shooting zone, start the movement of the index finger, without interrupting it until you release the shot, and then a little more.
Fourth, our objective is keeping the wrist as still as possible and not allowing any other movements to occur other than the arc of movement."
http://www.pilkguns.com/coach/anatoli.htm
Second, trust your stability, which is always better than it seems.
Third, when lowering the pistol to the shooting zone, start the movement of the index finger, without interrupting it until you release the shot, and then a little more.
Fourth, our objective is keeping the wrist as still as possible and not allowing any other movements to occur other than the arc of movement."
http://www.pilkguns.com/coach/anatoli.htm
Do I detect fustration?
I wish I had an answer, but alas can only share that I know your pain.
One consideration is to relax. Fustration will be the toughest task master to deal with.
Second, my impression is that the trick is putting everything together. The shot process is a series of events fitting together. We break down the process into sub-processes to train and perfect the sub-processes. Trying to put the subprocesses altogether in the intergrated act of firing is a learning process itself.
have you tried dryfiring etc a few rounds to get the basics (subprocesses) working right. Then live fire just a couple of rounds. Really just feel and pay attention to the process, not the score. Then dryfire etc for some number of rounds. Then live fire a couple.
In each case, never look at your score. Just relax, enjoy the training and feel the processes. Grade yourself on the basic subprocesses like sight picture, trigger squeeze, consistence of the wrist, mental focus.
I agree with Luft Gewehr suggestions. Also read posts by Steve Swartz and Ed Hall, their exchanges have been extremely helpful.
Learn to enjoy the process of trying to improve. Fustration will cause you nothing but more fustration. Been there, done that for too long.
One consideration is to relax. Fustration will be the toughest task master to deal with.
Second, my impression is that the trick is putting everything together. The shot process is a series of events fitting together. We break down the process into sub-processes to train and perfect the sub-processes. Trying to put the subprocesses altogether in the intergrated act of firing is a learning process itself.
have you tried dryfiring etc a few rounds to get the basics (subprocesses) working right. Then live fire just a couple of rounds. Really just feel and pay attention to the process, not the score. Then dryfire etc for some number of rounds. Then live fire a couple.
In each case, never look at your score. Just relax, enjoy the training and feel the processes. Grade yourself on the basic subprocesses like sight picture, trigger squeeze, consistence of the wrist, mental focus.
I agree with Luft Gewehr suggestions. Also read posts by Steve Swartz and Ed Hall, their exchanges have been extremely helpful.
Learn to enjoy the process of trying to improve. Fustration will cause you nothing but more fustration. Been there, done that for too long.
It's easy to trick yourself that nothing moves when dry firing but is that 'really' the case ? I would also advocate you shoot reverse cards (i.e just palin cards). You have no black and that you help you concentrate on the foresight. Also you are actually firing shots so that should also help you overcome whatever obstacles there are or at least help you identify where the problem is coming from.
Rob.
Rob.
See Chris then you could shoot a 50 on the backside just like me.
How close are you to the wall that you are holding on?
The problem might not be the things that you have subscribed them to. Try on the back if the groups are tighter than normal your problem might be one of mid-ranging, just like me and you have seen my results.
How close are you to the wall that you are holding on?
The problem might not be the things that you have subscribed them to. Try on the back if the groups are tighter than normal your problem might be one of mid-ranging, just like me and you have seen my results.
-
F. Paul in Denver
cdf,
The problem you describe may be due to lack of good follow thru. Follow thru is something that can easily be observed when dry firing but something which is masked by live fire recoil. I suffer from the same malady you describe.
I am reminded of my lack of good follow thru whenever I experience a misfire. My guns are all in pretty good shape so misfires dont happen very often BUT when they do, I am always amazed at how much movement there is just as the hammer drops on a dud round which I fully expected to go bang.
Whenever I intentionally want to be reminded of how awful my follow thru can be, I do some ball and dummy exercise. When the hammer falls on a dummy round, I can see exactly how my follow thru is working that day.
I try to use the ball and dummy exercise constructively - i.e., learn that the follow thru on ANY shot should be precisely the same as the follow thru you can observe during dry fire.
Very few training methods provide so much humility as ball and dummy.
F. Paul in Denver
The problem you describe may be due to lack of good follow thru. Follow thru is something that can easily be observed when dry firing but something which is masked by live fire recoil. I suffer from the same malady you describe.
I am reminded of my lack of good follow thru whenever I experience a misfire. My guns are all in pretty good shape so misfires dont happen very often BUT when they do, I am always amazed at how much movement there is just as the hammer drops on a dud round which I fully expected to go bang.
Whenever I intentionally want to be reminded of how awful my follow thru can be, I do some ball and dummy exercise. When the hammer falls on a dummy round, I can see exactly how my follow thru is working that day.
I try to use the ball and dummy exercise constructively - i.e., learn that the follow thru on ANY shot should be precisely the same as the follow thru you can observe during dry fire.
Very few training methods provide so much humility as ball and dummy.
F. Paul in Denver
-
Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: Do I detect fustration?
Interesting suggestion. One of my (many) problems is overholding/chicken finger, so I do a lot of dry fire training on a bullseye. Today I modified my exercise so that I did 5 dry fires, 10 live, repeat.... Will try this for a while and see how it goes.PETE S wrote: have you tried dryfiring etc a few rounds to get the basics (subprocesses) working right. Then live fire just a couple of rounds. Really just feel and pay attention to the process, not the score. Then dryfire etc for some number of rounds. Then live fire a couple.
Fred
Thank you all for your well thought out responses . I've caught myself committing just about every newbie sin in the book . I'm very concerned about cleaning up my technique now , when group sizes and scores are on an up slope . As opposed to setting bad habits in stone , and having to overcome them at a later date .
Keep the ideas comming .
Chris
Keep the ideas comming .
Chris
-
B Zins
CDF,
There was alot of good info passed. The one thing I always tell shooters is that the trigger is used to control the sights. Are you really doing that? No. It is a different way of thinking that puts the emphasis on trigger control, Couple that with pulling the trigger with your mind and things should come together whether dry firing or shooting live rounds.
Goos luck
There was alot of good info passed. The one thing I always tell shooters is that the trigger is used to control the sights. Are you really doing that? No. It is a different way of thinking that puts the emphasis on trigger control, Couple that with pulling the trigger with your mind and things should come together whether dry firing or shooting live rounds.
Goos luck
-
jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
I am (finally) a believer. The explanation was a bit simplistic for me, originally, I suspect. My approach that seems to be working better is to visualize the entire sight picture starting by aligning the sights and then lay that picture on the target. I then use the trigger to keep the desired picture without "thinking" about whether I am aligned vertically, etc. -- just "Is the whole picture the same for every shot."the trigger is used to control the sights
Once I changed my thinking on how to use the trigger to control the sights, then my scores started improving again.
Best,
Joe