Training Videos
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
Training Videos
I have seen videos out there for sale. Are any of them any good for the beginner to intermediate 3-P shooter?
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
Ways of the Rifle
Use this as your "coaches manual". I have one with me everywhere.
I don't ask the kids to read this ... I use the pictures in it to help explain when I'm trying to adjust their positions.
Also, CMP has a CD with video clips by Bob Foth. A good starter, but not very deep ... it's called Rifle Safety and Marksmanship Training ... I think it was $15 from CMP. Much better to find where Bob is doing a clinic.
I don't ask the kids to read this ... I use the pictures in it to help explain when I'm trying to adjust their positions.
Also, CMP has a CD with video clips by Bob Foth. A good starter, but not very deep ... it's called Rifle Safety and Marksmanship Training ... I think it was $15 from CMP. Much better to find where Bob is doing a clinic.
True. We don't use it for our shooters, just coaches. The AMU marksmanship manuals are a good starting point for shooters. The CMP sells them for about $4.sureshot007 wrote:I have that already, but it is too complicated for the begining shooter to read (especially if they are 13 years old).
The CD from Bob Foth (as Joel mentioned) may be a good starting point also.
Jay V
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
Maybe I should clarify this a little:
I need something for my shooters to do when not shooting. I have to run multiple relays, and I want to keep them busy with something productive. I figure that a good video series would do the trick.
I just find it hard to give the individual attention to all of them. So if I can find something that they can do on their own, that might help them out. I have Ways of the Rifle, and I have tried to let them look through it, but these are high school kids and they have a limited attention span. I have only one kid that will continue to shoot after highschool. The rest are just there for something to do.
Does anyone have Bob Foth's contact info?
I need something for my shooters to do when not shooting. I have to run multiple relays, and I want to keep them busy with something productive. I figure that a good video series would do the trick.
I just find it hard to give the individual attention to all of them. So if I can find something that they can do on their own, that might help them out. I have Ways of the Rifle, and I have tried to let them look through it, but these are high school kids and they have a limited attention span. I have only one kid that will continue to shoot after highschool. The rest are just there for something to do.
Does anyone have Bob Foth's contact info?
I typically have 12-20 shooters show on Tuesdays, Thursdays, & Sundays.
I know what you mean about not being able to watch all of them. Just last night we packed up everything , and as we were locking the doors I was chatting with my own girls about their scores. My youngest said she shot a zero!!! I looked at her and then realized I had not put her on the line ... man, talk about feeling bad and like a jerk!!!
I try and get my senior 4-H shooters on the line for the first relay (14-19 year olds). After they are finished, they don't get to go home ... they are just starting ... I have my seniors gather a group of younger kids and have them go to a corner and work on a position. I've found that, just like me, they learn by teaching.
I also use the new CMP marksmanship safety booklet for brand new kids. When they walk in they get a safety briefing 1st off. That is by me or one of the other coaching parents. They also get a journal. We'll usually let them shoot off the bench (supervised by a coach!). We then send them home and have them complete the test in the booklet ... I use the same standards that JROTC uses ... they must get 100% on the test before we let them shoot again. If they forget their book, test or journal, oh well ..... they either don't come back or they will have a bag with their stuff in it next time they show. When they come back in, they go off into a corner with one of my senior shooters and they grade the test with them, and explain what was wrong and why with the incorrect answers. They then "re-take" the incorrect parts and ... voile ... 100%. This is a great way for those seniors to be used.
I've got a great group of shooters ... I just coach, and be the Range Officer. I let them do most of the work.
I've found that by having the seniors get a new shooter started in a position, back behind the line, when I place a rifle in their hands on the line, I have very little to correct .... pretty minor stuff. The seniors are not feeling rushed in their work with the younger and newer kids, and probably do a better first cut than I did with them! They also are learning about their own positions ... many times they come over to me pointing out something on a younger shooter, and say "NOW I know what you mean"
I also live by the no horseplay rule. Every once in a while I have to get on a kid or two, but for 99% of the time they know my bark, and will self regulate themselves. I've only ever had to send one kid home. (Take that with a grain of salt ... I've only been doing this a year)
I guess in short, my advise is to not plop them in front of a TV, but have them help you ... believe me they WILL make you proud.
I know what you mean about not being able to watch all of them. Just last night we packed up everything , and as we were locking the doors I was chatting with my own girls about their scores. My youngest said she shot a zero!!! I looked at her and then realized I had not put her on the line ... man, talk about feeling bad and like a jerk!!!
I try and get my senior 4-H shooters on the line for the first relay (14-19 year olds). After they are finished, they don't get to go home ... they are just starting ... I have my seniors gather a group of younger kids and have them go to a corner and work on a position. I've found that, just like me, they learn by teaching.
I also use the new CMP marksmanship safety booklet for brand new kids. When they walk in they get a safety briefing 1st off. That is by me or one of the other coaching parents. They also get a journal. We'll usually let them shoot off the bench (supervised by a coach!). We then send them home and have them complete the test in the booklet ... I use the same standards that JROTC uses ... they must get 100% on the test before we let them shoot again. If they forget their book, test or journal, oh well ..... they either don't come back or they will have a bag with their stuff in it next time they show. When they come back in, they go off into a corner with one of my senior shooters and they grade the test with them, and explain what was wrong and why with the incorrect answers. They then "re-take" the incorrect parts and ... voile ... 100%. This is a great way for those seniors to be used.
I've got a great group of shooters ... I just coach, and be the Range Officer. I let them do most of the work.
I've found that by having the seniors get a new shooter started in a position, back behind the line, when I place a rifle in their hands on the line, I have very little to correct .... pretty minor stuff. The seniors are not feeling rushed in their work with the younger and newer kids, and probably do a better first cut than I did with them! They also are learning about their own positions ... many times they come over to me pointing out something on a younger shooter, and say "NOW I know what you mean"
I also live by the no horseplay rule. Every once in a while I have to get on a kid or two, but for 99% of the time they know my bark, and will self regulate themselves. I've only ever had to send one kid home. (Take that with a grain of salt ... I've only been doing this a year)
I guess in short, my advise is to not plop them in front of a TV, but have them help you ... believe me they WILL make you proud.
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
I have tried that already. It doesn't necessarily work. Here's why - my team (just like the rest of them in my area) is a High School Varsity Sport. So I only get a couple of kids that really want to do it and excel. The rest of them are there for something to do, or their parents want them to participate in something (I suspect it is to keep the kids out of their hair for a little longer, or until they return from work, but I have no proof of this yet). The kids are not as dedicated as they should be, or would be if it was a Boy Scout team, or 4-H club. It annoys me to see so many kids that aren't into it pass through my team. But I have to deal with it, because I can't have a team with 3 people. This school would shut the program down. So in order to keep the team alive, I have to let these other kids stay on the team. No dedication or focus. If I made the kids come on a Saturday, without a bus from the school, I would have 3 kids. That is the core of my team. The other 17 I have are just there for the ride. So what do I do with those kids when they aren't shooting?
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wrc
If you're really that desperate, then I'd try to appeal to their other interests. Would anyone like to do some video work? Take video or still footage of the other shooters, use for training, make a scrapbook, whatever. Wood or metal working interests? Gunsmithing! Simple upkeep & repair. Make wobbleboards. Make stocks!
Computer/data geeks? Do a website, run stats, develope a spreadsheet. Any "hook" to make them feel useful to the team, even if they don't want to or have the skills to actually shoot on the team.
PS - really enjoyed jhmartin's thoughts. I'll have to apply more of those techniques.
Computer/data geeks? Do a website, run stats, develope a spreadsheet. Any "hook" to make them feel useful to the team, even if they don't want to or have the skills to actually shoot on the team.
PS - really enjoyed jhmartin's thoughts. I'll have to apply more of those techniques.
I'll admit ... the kids I seem to have "motivation" issues with are the public school kids. About 80% of my 4-H air rifle shooters are homeschoolers.
I don't require attendance, when we go to competitions the ones that attend seem to score higher and make the A & B teams .... go figure.
I also shoot silhouette about once per month and NEVER tell them when I'm doing it ahead of time. We can shoot 1/2 distance indoors easily. I'll admit that when I put the silhouettes into the truck to go to practice, my girls are on the phone calling as many as they can.
I also use the USAS passport program which awards pins for different accomplishment levels. Some kids need the "trinkets" incentive.
I also probably have the advantage of the time of practice as well. During the week I start at 5PM and on Sundays at 2PM, so the parents pretty much have to get involved to bring them (only 2 of my shooters have licenses)
I'll keep thinking on this.....
I don't require attendance, when we go to competitions the ones that attend seem to score higher and make the A & B teams .... go figure.
I also shoot silhouette about once per month and NEVER tell them when I'm doing it ahead of time. We can shoot 1/2 distance indoors easily. I'll admit that when I put the silhouettes into the truck to go to practice, my girls are on the phone calling as many as they can.
I also use the USAS passport program which awards pins for different accomplishment levels. Some kids need the "trinkets" incentive.
I also probably have the advantage of the time of practice as well. During the week I start at 5PM and on Sundays at 2PM, so the parents pretty much have to get involved to bring them (only 2 of my shooters have licenses)
I'll keep thinking on this.....
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Guest
Great stuff!
Our club has run into a bit of both situations. Year to year it changes. Last year we had a smaller group of more dedicated shooters, but the year before we had a larger (32) group like sureshot007 has. Things get out-of-hand really quick with 16 shooting and 16 chatting. No goofing around is our rule also, and by now most of them know that they will get a good bark by me or one of our former Marines if they are goofing around.
We have had good luck recently with using our more advanced shooters as coaches, and coaching does help them learn.
We have folders (at the range) where they keep handouts I give them. I will make copies of a section (not too much) of Ways Of The Rifle or The CMP 3P Coaches Guide (for beginning shooters) and have them read it while not shooting. After a while (when they have all finished) I will talk over the important parts and quiz them on it. After that I may tell them to pull out a previous handout and re-read it to kill some time before their relay is up.
Luckily this hasn't been a problem lately.
It can be a bit frustrating, but giving students solid safety training may be all you can do for some of them. We can't help them become top shooters if they don't want to try, but we can send them home with knowledge about safe gun handling that will last a lifetime.
Jay V
AIAC Juniors
IL
www.aiac-airguns.org
Our club has run into a bit of both situations. Year to year it changes. Last year we had a smaller group of more dedicated shooters, but the year before we had a larger (32) group like sureshot007 has. Things get out-of-hand really quick with 16 shooting and 16 chatting. No goofing around is our rule also, and by now most of them know that they will get a good bark by me or one of our former Marines if they are goofing around.
We have had good luck recently with using our more advanced shooters as coaches, and coaching does help them learn.
We have folders (at the range) where they keep handouts I give them. I will make copies of a section (not too much) of Ways Of The Rifle or The CMP 3P Coaches Guide (for beginning shooters) and have them read it while not shooting. After a while (when they have all finished) I will talk over the important parts and quiz them on it. After that I may tell them to pull out a previous handout and re-read it to kill some time before their relay is up.
Luckily this hasn't been a problem lately.
It can be a bit frustrating, but giving students solid safety training may be all you can do for some of them. We can't help them become top shooters if they don't want to try, but we can send them home with knowledge about safe gun handling that will last a lifetime.
Jay V
AIAC Juniors
IL
www.aiac-airguns.org
Contact Info
Great thread everyone! So many great suggestions in various responses. Next time a coach asks for help we can refer him/her to this thread. "Ways...", AMU Manual, CMP's CD-ROM, Seniors coaching and teaching newbies, building on individual interests, rewards, varied training, quizzes. I'll add a suggestion to try to involve assistants/parents. If you can avoid double duty as Coach and Range Officer you are a step ahead (and safer).
sureshot007 also asked for my contact info.
I can be reached at:
bobfoth@juno.com
You can click on search above and enter "Foth" to get more information on clinics, etc. (including some photos - Thanks Scott!!!)
The CMP CD-ROM is a useful tool and allows shooters to go through randomly at their own pace. Some short Quicktime videos are included on it. I do not have any extra copies, but CMP sells them inexpensively.
sureshot007 also asked for my contact info.
I can be reached at:
bobfoth@juno.com
You can click on search above and enter "Foth" to get more information on clinics, etc. (including some photos - Thanks Scott!!!)
The CMP CD-ROM is a useful tool and allows shooters to go through randomly at their own pace. Some short Quicktime videos are included on it. I do not have any extra copies, but CMP sells them inexpensively.
One of the things we are using to help with the safety angle is OBI's. The only time we allow a gun not to have the OBI in place is on the line and in position. That really helps the RSO keep track of things as gun move from and to the line. After a few sharp reminders the kids really adhere to the use of them. We got ours from CMP but they are available all over.
Unfortunately we cannot store our rifles at the range so they have to be cased and trucked to and from the range each session. A real pain! The OBI goes in as the rifle is removed from the case and stays in the gun except when on the line and in position. We store them in the muzzle in the guncase and so far this is working really well.
Unfortunately we cannot store our rifles at the range so they have to be cased and trucked to and from the range each session. A real pain! The OBI goes in as the rifle is removed from the case and stays in the gun except when on the line and in position. We store them in the muzzle in the guncase and so far this is working really well.
OBI versus CBI
RE:
There is a difference between an Open Bolt Indicator (OBI) that shows only that the bolt is open, and a Clear Barrel Indicator (CBI) for airguns that shows that the action is open and nothing is in the entire barrel.
CMP is now recommending, and JROTC is now REQUIRING the use of CBI's. These are inserted in the guns as they come out of the case and are only removed during the prep period and when the gun is being fired. When the shooter is done with the firing the CBI is re-inserted so that the RO can easily determine if the action is open and the gun is safe.
Our 4-H club uses CBI's since we compete mostly against the JROTC teams ... we basically use the entire JROTC safety program. I have a JMIC cert, and our range has been inspected by the master JMIC instructors.
If you are only using OBI's, I'd recommend that you go to the CBI as I believe they are required at the national competitions as well.
Gaffer .... Small point of clarification here ...One of the things we are using to help with the safety angle is OBI's
There is a difference between an Open Bolt Indicator (OBI) that shows only that the bolt is open, and a Clear Barrel Indicator (CBI) for airguns that shows that the action is open and nothing is in the entire barrel.
CMP is now recommending, and JROTC is now REQUIRING the use of CBI's. These are inserted in the guns as they come out of the case and are only removed during the prep period and when the gun is being fired. When the shooter is done with the firing the CBI is re-inserted so that the RO can easily determine if the action is open and the gun is safe.
Our 4-H club uses CBI's since we compete mostly against the JROTC teams ... we basically use the entire JROTC safety program. I have a JMIC cert, and our range has been inspected by the master JMIC instructors.
If you are only using OBI's, I'd recommend that you go to the CBI as I believe they are required at the national competitions as well.
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ALbert B
CBI
In the netherlands the CBI's are not compulsory. I started using them myself at my club and now slowly more and more people are starting using them.
Because the club will not buy CBI's I made them myself for all the club rifles by using the 4mm diameter drinking straws that are supplied with the small orange juice containers and putting bright red or yellow tape around the part sticking out of the loading port of the rifle.
If you ever forget your CBI, just walk over to the bar/restaurant of the shooting club and ask for a red colored drinking straw.
Albert
(The Netherlands)
Because the club will not buy CBI's I made them myself for all the club rifles by using the 4mm diameter drinking straws that are supplied with the small orange juice containers and putting bright red or yellow tape around the part sticking out of the loading port of the rifle.
If you ever forget your CBI, just walk over to the bar/restaurant of the shooting club and ask for a red colored drinking straw.
Albert
(The Netherlands)