Sideways stability - how does one acheive it???

[johnbraks]

I seem to have my elevation sorted out (nearly always 9 or 10 in terms of vertical hold) but need advice on getting control of sideways swing - my shots are anywhere between say, 8 at 9 o'clock and 8 at 3 o'clock. Does the width opening on the rear sight have any bearing on this? Or the balance between the first and second stages (I have quite heavy first stage, about 80%). Could the position of barrel weights be a factor? I'm shooting an LP@ Anschutz with a (very comfortable) Rink grip.

[Guest]

Try rotating your foot placement so your toes are closer together.
This may firm up yor stability.

[Ed Hall]

Check your NPA to make sure you aren't adding some sideways muscle tension to hold center. Take some time to study your pattern of hold, without applying any trigger. Study it closely in training and at the match, and write some detailed notes. Then compare the notes from a few sessions. After all that, add in some trigger operation without resetting the trigger. Just make the motion with your finger of bringing the trigger back and then releasing it (as in increasing and decreasing the pressure), checking for sideways motion in the sights. Find the best positioning and manipulation that minimizes the sideways error. Write all the details in your journal. Take time to review your notes.

To work on minimizing the side to side error in your hold pattern, in training sessions, place a card with a vertical line on it at the proper height and hold your sights aligned on the line so that it splits the front sight in half. Have your front sight right up to the line just back from touching it and really concentrate on minimizing the sideways movement. Do this exercise a few times a day in short sessions, maybe holding for about 20 seconds to start and then working based on your actual hold time. When it starts getting noticably poorer, take a break.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[WSmith]

With a target in place, assume your regular shooting stance and pistol grip, and prepare to raise the gun as you are currently doing. Now CLOSE YOUR EYES and raise the gun. OPEN YOUR EYES: (1) Are your sights naturally aligned, and (2) Is your pistol on the center axis of the target? (Don't be concerned at this time with the vertical position.) If the answer to #1 is NO, then you'll have to adjust your grip, so that your natural grip aligns the sights. If the answer to #2 is NO, then you need to adjust the alignment of your stance - usually by moving your REAR FOOT left or right.

REMEMBER: When the shot breaks, the gun tends to move to the shooter's natural alignment/aim point. (If you were to shoot at a BLANK piece of paper while just allowing your body to assume its' natural point/alignment, you should be able to produce a narrow vertical shot grouping. This is a very Zen exercise.)

You may be trying to compensate for the way your body/pistol naturally points with your current stance and/or grip. (Try watching your groups move as your move the rear foot.) Also, make sure your stance is CONSISTENT in regards to foot placement. Once you attain a repeatable stance that aligns your body with the target, rotate your hips slightly to lock it in place for added stability.

[IPshooter]

REMEMBER: When the shot breaks, the gun tends to move to the shooter's natural alignment/aim point.

I have found this to be true, also. That's why, when finding my NPA, I don't simply close my eyes, raise and then see where I am. I actually dry fire the shot with my eyes closed and then see where I'm pointed. It seems to work much better *for me*.

[Fred]

There's one other factor, having to do with grip fit. An anatomical grip can feel very comfortable and still not fit correctly. One possible result can be a change in the natural side-to-side pointing position depending on how tightly you grip. This is easily checked by holding the gun in a shooting position and checking for front sight lateral movement as you tighten and loosen your grip.

Of course if you are disciplined enough to take your grip with exactly the same tension every time, and can keep it consistent throughout a match, then the minor grip misfit I mentioned is no problem. However I try to fit my grips so that some minor lack of consistency in grip tension will not cause a lateral shift, since I don't have confidence in my ability to be totally consistent.

HTH,
FredB

[funtoz]

Lateral dispersion from poor NPA or trigger finger position tends to be on one side or the other. NPA errors often switch from target to target, but not within one, unless you change position. Laterally oval groups as you describe, being on both sides of the bull, can be a sight problem. Not having enough light on the sides of the post can create lateral ambiguity. There simply aren't enough pixels in the eye to accurately place the post. Opening up the notch will fix that. Don Nygord recommended a white-post-white ratio of 1-1-1 or 1-2-1. The 1-1-1 is for us old folks who don't see all that well any more. I tried a U-notch earlier this year that was only a smidgen narrower than my square notch. I immediately started getting a lot of lateral dispersion. The dispersion went away as soon as I went back to the wider square notch.

Larry

[jackh]

Most of the NPA discussions seem to me to be about foot position and target orientation.

What do you think are the important components in the so called NPA?
1. Natural alignment of sights and eye.
2. Natural position angle of shoulder for stability.

Where can adjustments be made that are the most forgiving?

[ben]

I was surprised to discover that consistent placement of the non-shooting hand is absolutely necessary - for me - to achieve a consistent NPA. Quite small changes in hand placement swings the NPA fully across the 10 metre target.
hope this helps
ben

[Rapid]

Hi John,
You could also try to change the rake of your grip. I think you can addapt this on the Anschutz pistol. The anatomy of your wrist limits the sideways movement when you use a more "hanging" rake (lack of a better description) compared to the classical steep rake. You can try it yourself without the pistol, see how far you can move your fist sideways at different angles.

Cheers,
Bob

[CharlesC]

How I place my thumb and little finger on the grip affects my lateral shot placement. I don't apply any pressure with either digit on my pistol grip.

[johnbraks]

Thanks for everyones helpful input........question for Bob (Rapid): should the rake be adjusted so that the weight of the pistol makes the hand hang down to its natural anatomical end-of-travel, or should the pistol be held upwards or forced further downwards slightly. I get the least vertical spread when the pistol hangs naturally.
regards John

[Rapid]

Hi John,
If you force the pistol further down than where it is natural, it will tend to move upwards when you least expect (and want) it, i.e. during the shot. So that would not be my advice. The natural hanging position would be OK. Make sure that when you slightly increase and decrease your grip strength the front sight remains in its place, as a more vertical grip has more stability a different levels of applied force (the tendons in the wrist pass over the boney bits, which act as a pulley). In a hanging grip the wrist joint provides the stability whereas in a steeper grip it’s the balance of forearm muscles and tendons. It’s a trade-off really.
Speaking of force, I agree that you may need to take a look at the grip of your gun. Does the front sight appear in the middle of the rear sight when you open your eyes? Correcting a slight lateral misalignment could also give you sideways motion during the shot.

Cheers,
Bob