For those in the U.K, hope springs eternal...

[Fortitudo Dei]

This just caught my eye while surfing some news sites. It is a little unclear as to whether this would apply to all ISSF pistol shooters or just a designated "elite".

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From the Guardian (UK)

by Duncan Mackay

Friday October 7, 2005

Britain's shooting laws could be relaxed to help the Olympic team return from exile and prepare at home for the London games in 2012.
Legislation introduced after the Dunblane massacre in 1996 outlawed handguns in Britain even for licensed sport, forcing leading competitors to train in Switzerland.

But now government ministers are considering giving pistol shooters the same special exemption from the law as police marksmen or personal protection officers, because they want to help maximise Britain's medal chances in 2012.

A "section five" exemption would allow the use of pistols for specific purposes, without having to relax the rules on other handguns. Richard Caborn, the sports minister, has already held preliminary talks with the home secretary Charles Clarke and is confident of success. "We don't think it's going to be a problem," he said. "We've just got to manage it properly to ensure they are only used in controlled conditions and to reassure the public."

Christopher Graffium, a spokesman for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation, said pistol shooters had suffered because of the ban. "The tradition in Britain is when you legislate you unintentionally hit the legitimate shooter first," he said. "But we're working with the government to do what we can to improve the situation."

[RobStubbs]

This has been discussed on some of the UK forums. It looks as though there may be some good news in the future but we will have to wait and see what develops. No-one seems to have any more information and our governing bodies have kept quiet. That however could be because it's work ongoing and they don't want to release information prematurely.

Rob.

[David Levene]

It is a little unclear as to whether this would apply to all ISSF pistol shooters or just a designated "elite".

I am pretty sure that this will be for, as you put it, a designated elite.

[Fred Mannis]

and to reassure the public."

Good grief! I lived in the U.K. for a year ('62-3) and this is not the country I remember. The public is afraid of a few hundred (?) legitimate, controlled, licensed, etc. pistol shooters while terrorists are allowed to preach violence and build bombs?

I hope it never comes to pass here.

Fred

[Fortitudo Dei]

It is a little unclear as to whether this would apply to all ISSF pistol shooters or just a designated "elite".

I am pretty sure that this will be for, as you put it, a designated elite.

It would be such a shame if it were. It would also be somewhat counter-productive to the ultimate goal of the UK doing well at the Olympics. I know that ISSF pistol shooters can have a long competitive career compared to other sports, but seven years is still a long time. It would also prevent any new talent coming forward in that time.

Would seven years be enough to go from a newbie to an Olympic medallist in pistol? (I know it's possible in rifle - Du Li (China) won her first WC in 2002 in AR at the age of only 20 and started competing in 1996 - so I guess anything can happen...)

[RobStubbs]

[It would be such a shame if it were. It would also be somewhat counter-productive to the ultimate goal of the UK doing well at the Olympics. I know that ISSF pistol shooters can have a long competitive career compared to other sports, but seven years is still a long time. It would also prevent any new talent coming forward in that time.

Would seven years be enough to go from a newbie to an Olympic medallist in pistol? (I know it's possible in rifle - Du Li (China) won her first WC in 2002 in AR at the age of only 20 and started competing in 1996 - so I guess anything can happen...)

Remember also that a newbie would not fit into the designated elite category and would never get their hands on a pistol in the first place. If as others have suggested it is just those of a very high standard anyway, it is not likely to acheive very much if anything for the long term. It may acheive a brief transient goal of getting us into the olympics in those events but it won't help either new shooters or shooting in general (IMHO).

Rob.

[David Levene]

It may acheive a brief transient goal of getting us into the olympics in those events but it won't help either new shooters or shooting in general (IMHO).

Remember that, unless they change the rules, we will automatically get 1 quota place in each of the affected events, Rapid and 25m (Ladies).

I really don't believe this government cares how well we do in those two events. All that they care about is showing the public how "fair and reasonable" they are.

They are also not interested in achieving long term improvement. They don't want cartridge pistol shooting to exist.

(I'd better stop now before I go into political rant mode, not the intention of this forum)

[David Levene]

I just realised that I am starting to sound as though I am against this proposed (false) relaxation of the laws.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It is a great success, but only for our very best shooters in the 2 events. Unless I am very much mistaken it will do absolutely nothing for our grass roots shooters.

I will be doing everything I can to assist those who are skillful, fit and promising enough to be selected.

[RobStubbs]

I just realised that I am starting to sound as though I am against this proposed (false) relaxation of the laws.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It is a great success, but only for our very best shooters in the 2 events. Unless I am very much mistaken it will do absolutely nothing for our grass roots shooters.

I will be doing everything I can to assist those who are skillful, fit and promising enough to be selected.

David,
But by my reconing that means we have two (lady) shooters who would qualify and no one else. We can't even select anyone to shoot rapid fire at the commonwealths so by my reconing we don't even have a 'very best' in the event.

Sorry but if that's all that this applies to then I would not support it. I would however argue for a greater relaxation rather than scrap the proposal completely.

Rob.

[David Levene]

But by my reconing that means we have two (lady) shooters who would qualify and no one else.

I wouldn't write off the other ladies who have been training with cartridge pistols abroad this year. It may not be ideal but at least they have shown a dedication to the sport. They also have shown great potential.

Who knows what, if any, assistance will be available for people to do initial training abroad. (Shooting 25m matches with air pistols, whilst still competitive and challenging, has proved to be far removed from shooting them with the correct cartridge pistols.) It is a fair bet however that individuals will have to invest a lot of money, time and effort in the process if they want to be considered. Nothing has changed there, it has always been like that.

[Paul T (UK)]

Precision air pistol is absolutely essential for all of the core basics and none are lost when moving to 25m. In my view, only some of the additional 25m event skills can be replicated using air 5-shot pistols in place of cartridge.

I feel some earlier posts were doing our Ladies Sport Pistol shooters a great disservice as they are good and improving air pistol shooters and coming into zone in terms of match experience, the good news is that through the pony clubs (a feeder to modern pentathlon), we have a very encouraging stream of potentials. They already have fitness and many core stability (not falling off the horses is apparently handy for the riding part) and more than acquainted with competition from an early age.

All is not as bleak as some posts may appear. Yes, time, effort and commitment are all essential over a period where school, university and forming careers but all countries face the same issues.

[RobStubbs]

I wouldn't write off the other ladies who have been training with cartridge pistols abroad this year. It may not be ideal but at least they have shown a dedication to the sport. They also have shown great potential.

Who knows what, if any, assistance will be available for people to do initial training abroad. (Shooting 25m matches with air pistols, whilst still competitive and challenging, has proved to be far removed from shooting them with the correct cartridge pistols.) It is a fair bet however that individuals will have to invest a lot of money, time and effort in the process if they want to be considered. Nothing has changed there, it has always been like that.

David,
I wasn't meaning to write off other lady (or men for that matter) shooters - there is just very scant information surrounding who's doing what in overseas training. The public face if you want to call it that is the two young lady shooters we all know of.

I'm sure air pistols are a poor replicate for cartridge but that is our route into the events in the UK and for the majority of people that will be the closest they ever get. I know it takes a lot of time and money to train effectively abroad. I guess my point is that I would like to think any change in the laws would help reduce that overseas burden and thus improve our prospects in 2012 (and, who knows, 2008).

Rob.