Your opinions please:
I usualy start a match with two good series. After that, usualy the 3rd and 4th series will be much worse (example today AP 95, 94, 90, 89...). Usualy 5th and 6th series has improvment but not as much as the first series. The patern is the same every mach...
I am trying to find the reasons for this. Usualy I do not train too much (about twice a week and not for long time) with fear that overtraining will do more damadge than help.
Any sugestions?
Best regards,
LP
How to keep performance along the (long) Match
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There are two issues here, as I see it; training the mind and training the body.
Firstly the body. You need to be able to shoot a sixty match OK and not feel tired. I would advise train at least one of those two sessions as a 100 (or more) shot session. Break it up into sections and have a rest every 20-25 shots (as you would in match) but you need to be able to comfortably. If that isn't practical then do (light) weight training at home - perhaps after shooting to help build up the strength.
Secondly you are training your mind to expect the 3rd & 4th series to be bad - and your mind delivers what it perceives you wanted. You need to get over the expectation by thinking positive and taking each single shot as just that. Ignore the '60 shot' match and focus only on the shot in the gun at every stage and don't add up scores. You can try and trick your mind by not resting at the ends of a series - try resting after 17 shots or so rather than 20, or better still don't count.
Rob.
Firstly the body. You need to be able to shoot a sixty match OK and not feel tired. I would advise train at least one of those two sessions as a 100 (or more) shot session. Break it up into sections and have a rest every 20-25 shots (as you would in match) but you need to be able to comfortably. If that isn't practical then do (light) weight training at home - perhaps after shooting to help build up the strength.
Secondly you are training your mind to expect the 3rd & 4th series to be bad - and your mind delivers what it perceives you wanted. You need to get over the expectation by thinking positive and taking each single shot as just that. Ignore the '60 shot' match and focus only on the shot in the gun at every stage and don't add up scores. You can try and trick your mind by not resting at the ends of a series - try resting after 17 shots or so rather than 20, or better still don't count.
Rob.
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Mental Training
Good advice, Rob. I have found myself falling into the same mental trap. It's hard not to look at a card when you put up a new one, so I'm going to shoot an odd number of shots between breaks in a 60 shot practice session.
Regards,
Fred
Regards,
Fred
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ucfshooter
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:07 pm
- Location: Orlando, FL
- Contact:
Everyone that I have seen posting on here says not to weight train, or if they do weight train it always says light weights. I was just wondering why a shooter wouldn't want to have durable strong muscles instead of just having the durability.
Is there any reason that training to gain strength and endurance is bad for a shooter?
I find myself shooting a match and getting stringer as the match goes. Most likely this is a lack of focus in the early stages of a match, but still, it is one of those things in which I find myself being strong at the end.
Is there any reason that training to gain strength and endurance is bad for a shooter?
I find myself shooting a match and getting stringer as the match goes. Most likely this is a lack of focus in the early stages of a match, but still, it is one of those things in which I find myself being strong at the end.
As I understand it you want to promote the development of the right sort of muscles (/fibres) and these are the type created by using light weights, repetatively. The muscles developed by body body builders are the wrong type and are prone to twitches. So shooters and other practisioners of precision events need to ensure they don't make matters worse. There's a lot of reading out there on the internet on muscle types and on a number of shooting websites.
HTH,
Rob.
HTH,
Rob.
Luis, I too find myself shooting well at the beginning and end of a match and "slacking off" in the middle. For me, it is purely mental. When I start a match I am excited and want to do my best. I go through the shot routine and focus on each shot. Then one of two things happen, or sometimes both...
If I am shooting particularly well I start thinking about how great it will be to shoot a personal best. That is not conducive to good shooting.
The second thing that can happen is I get bored. After 10-15 minutes my mind starts wandering. Usually it is just a little, but I am not focussing as sharply on each shot as I was in the beginning. When I get near the end, then I want to finish strong and I focus more.
Both problems are 100% mental and require mental exercises to solve. Of course if you are not physically fit or are not taking breaks often enough then the solution is self-evident. I have been using self talk to remind myself that every shot is important. Also it is part of my process. As I raise the pistol, I say "One Good Shot."
ucfshooter, I agree with what Rob says. I am not expert, but light weights and high reps makes sense to me. When you are body building, you lift a very heavy weight in an explosive movement. You repeat a few times then rest. This is about as far from shooting as you can get. Lifting a light weight, under control and repeating it many times is much closer to what we do. I have never read it, but when I lift, I do it slowly and hold it in the extended position for a few seconds.
Regards,
Steve T
If I am shooting particularly well I start thinking about how great it will be to shoot a personal best. That is not conducive to good shooting.
The second thing that can happen is I get bored. After 10-15 minutes my mind starts wandering. Usually it is just a little, but I am not focussing as sharply on each shot as I was in the beginning. When I get near the end, then I want to finish strong and I focus more.
Both problems are 100% mental and require mental exercises to solve. Of course if you are not physically fit or are not taking breaks often enough then the solution is self-evident. I have been using self talk to remind myself that every shot is important. Also it is part of my process. As I raise the pistol, I say "One Good Shot."
ucfshooter, I agree with what Rob says. I am not expert, but light weights and high reps makes sense to me. When you are body building, you lift a very heavy weight in an explosive movement. You repeat a few times then rest. This is about as far from shooting as you can get. Lifting a light weight, under control and repeating it many times is much closer to what we do. I have never read it, but when I lift, I do it slowly and hold it in the extended position for a few seconds.
Regards,
Steve T
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ucfshooter
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:07 pm
- Location: Orlando, FL
- Contact:
Ok so basically what everyone is saying is don't do weights that you can't do for 10-15 repetitions at least? I Normally do 10-20 repetitions depending on what aparatus I am using, and then some added cardio exercise. I don't max out, or for that matter come anywhere near maxing out, but i don't exactly go light either......Im at a low moderate status right now, Is that something that is good, or is that working everything too hard? Should I back off some weight and add more reps.... like up to 30? or what is best?
I would advise using weights only up to a couple of times the weight of the gun (i.e. 2kg ish). This is for exercises that simulate the shooting process and hence use the same muscles. Other exercises are really up to you, but be aware that they may have some affect on your shooting. As for cardio exercises they are very good for shooting so pretty much do as much as you can.
Rob.
Rob.
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Getting back to the original question... I, too, could count on my 3rd & 4th series to be very poor in AP. Then I discovered that several of the points made by other posters above were indeed correct.
1) Whether I wanted to admit it or not, I was training myself to expect poor performance in the middle of the match.
2) This mental image started to cause me to be afraid to take the shot in those series, knowing the outcome was likely not going to be as good as I wanted it to be.
3) Once I got past the 4th series I could relax, knowing my score was already in the toilet.
Here's what I did to overcome the problem.
1) started NOT shooting scoreable targets during my training sessions. Worked on shooting as many shots as I could without putting one out into the 8-ring. Or would shoot as long as it took to get 10 shots in the 10-ring. Essentially I took away raw score as a method of measuring my own performance
2) when I would shoot a match I worked very hard to make it a "one shot match". This is a mental game that requires you to focus on the current shot and only the current shot. Hard work, but it's a trick that is of great value.
3) during a match, DON'T count the score! It's very easy to look at a string of 10 targets and think "yeah, that looks like a score of 86 - man does that ever suck!" This mental scoring moves you away from the ideal of performance measurement by means other than raw score, and it also provides huge amounts of the most undesireable form of negative reinforcement.
4) I would break my match into 3-shot segments, rather than working on 10-shot strings. The 3-shot criteria is entirely personal - that's about as many shots as I can take without need for a mental break and to let my fingers relax on the grip. One major advantage of this technique is that it's almost impossible to count your score!
As for physical training, try another mental game. Shoot a 100-shot training match, and take your match score out of the middle. You might just be surprised to find your 3rd and 4th strings aren't so bad after all! If your scores show a general decline as you move out toward the 100-shot mark, you probably need to work on physical strength. Other commentors here are probably right on the money. I'm doing high numbers of repetitions with 3lbs in each hand (remember to train both left and right sides!). This seems to work on strength that's needed for a long match. And if you do it 2 days before a match, then fewer reps the day before the match, then only a few very slow reps the morning of the match you'll find your muscles won't need so much warm-up time at the beginning of the match. Just my two cents worth...
Hope these little tidbits help, and good luck!
1) Whether I wanted to admit it or not, I was training myself to expect poor performance in the middle of the match.
2) This mental image started to cause me to be afraid to take the shot in those series, knowing the outcome was likely not going to be as good as I wanted it to be.
3) Once I got past the 4th series I could relax, knowing my score was already in the toilet.
Here's what I did to overcome the problem.
1) started NOT shooting scoreable targets during my training sessions. Worked on shooting as many shots as I could without putting one out into the 8-ring. Or would shoot as long as it took to get 10 shots in the 10-ring. Essentially I took away raw score as a method of measuring my own performance
2) when I would shoot a match I worked very hard to make it a "one shot match". This is a mental game that requires you to focus on the current shot and only the current shot. Hard work, but it's a trick that is of great value.
3) during a match, DON'T count the score! It's very easy to look at a string of 10 targets and think "yeah, that looks like a score of 86 - man does that ever suck!" This mental scoring moves you away from the ideal of performance measurement by means other than raw score, and it also provides huge amounts of the most undesireable form of negative reinforcement.
4) I would break my match into 3-shot segments, rather than working on 10-shot strings. The 3-shot criteria is entirely personal - that's about as many shots as I can take without need for a mental break and to let my fingers relax on the grip. One major advantage of this technique is that it's almost impossible to count your score!
As for physical training, try another mental game. Shoot a 100-shot training match, and take your match score out of the middle. You might just be surprised to find your 3rd and 4th strings aren't so bad after all! If your scores show a general decline as you move out toward the 100-shot mark, you probably need to work on physical strength. Other commentors here are probably right on the money. I'm doing high numbers of repetitions with 3lbs in each hand (remember to train both left and right sides!). This seems to work on strength that's needed for a long match. And if you do it 2 days before a match, then fewer reps the day before the match, then only a few very slow reps the morning of the match you'll find your muscles won't need so much warm-up time at the beginning of the match. Just my two cents worth...
Hope these little tidbits help, and good luck!