Getting Air Pistol (Steyr LP 2) into Canada

Modern Pent · Post by **Modern Pent** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:48 am

I am heading to Canada very shortly for a Modern Pent. competition. Does anyone have any experience of what it takes Canadian customs to approve an air pistol from the US. I have a Steyr LP 2 and want to take it. As I interpret their regs the LP 2 is on the "Restricted" list. Therefore, I need to declare it (complete the declaration form) and apply for and get an Authorization to Transport (ATT). I applied for the ATT through the provincial firearms office. They said that the event wasn't officially registered with their office and therefore couldn't issue an ATT.

The event organizers will not, at this juncture, register the event. The organizers say that all I need to do is get the pistol declared a "non-high-powered" air pistol. They suggest I do this by taking it to a gunsmith and getting them to adjust the muzzel velocity to < 500' / sec. They say I also need the official gunsmith to sign a letter stating that they have done this.

Any advice or suggestions from folks who have transported air pistols to Canada. Also, will the US domestic airlines give me any hassle even with a discharged air chamber. Thanks.

cbpersel · Post by **cbpersel** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:17 am

I would post your question to the Canadian shooting AP/AR forum at:

http://www.targetshooting.ca/wwwboard/index.html

If my memory serves me correctly you can get a temporary permit at Canadian Customs when entering the country. It is true that airguns with a velocity of <500 fps are not considered firearms, but I don`t think it is necessary to go that far if you are a visiting competitor.

Craig

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:18 am

Basically, you fill out a form and pay $25 (good for one year) to get virtually any number of guns into Canada. I am about to go to Ontario for a the Canada Field Target Nationals with my Steyr LG100ZM and the information and comments from others indicate that it is not much of a problem. The form (and lots of information) is available at http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info_for-rens ... itin_e.asp

Best,

Joe

Mike McDaniel · Post by **Mike McDaniel** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:23 pm

No, his problem is that it's a pistol. And the Canadians are considering any air pistol with a muzzle velocity over 500 fps to be equivalent ot a .45 automatic.

He needs both the Customs form and the ATT. Unfortunately.

cbpersel · Post by **cbpersel** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:50 pm

But any airgun (pistol or rifle) with a muzzle velocity of over 500fps is considered a firearm in Canada. Doesn`t matter whether it is a pistol or rifle. Quite a few Americans participate in the annual Toronto airgun event and bring 500fps+ airguns across the border with little trouble. They just fill out the proper forms. The hassle is if you live here (like me), do not have a firearm license (like me) then you need to buy <500fps airguns (like me). Not a big deal, but requires buying de-tuned airguns for the Canadian market.

Craig Persel

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:06 pm

Dear Modern Pent

I was involved in researching the answer to your question on Monday of this week, when the person whom you originally contacted with this question passed it on to me as I have had some experience dealing with this specific issue in the past. I feel great knowing you trusted the answers so little that you would seek additional advice here. Remember, when in doubt, go to the regulatory agency. Visit their website, get their phone number and call them. That's the only way you're going to get trustworthy information.

BTW, Mr. Persel has made a very valid point concerning the Canadian Airgun Grand Prix held every year in Toronto. What he has not mentioned is that smooth border crossings for this event occured ONLY because the event organisers were forced to make special arrangements with the office of the Chief Firearms Officer of Ontario so that ATT's would be granted quickly and efficiently. So far it appears the organisers of the Pent championships have not made any attempt to liaise with their local Chief Firearms Officer so there is little to no hope of you getting an ATT because the event/venue is not recognized by the CFO.

I wish you good success in your pursuit, but also wish that, when you request assistance, you would accept the advice given. This public outreach for assistance does little for your cause except spread misinformation.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:49 pm

It never hurts to publicize a dilemma further to get people to think. and maybe the answers could help set an argument for precedence. possibly also shame the organizers into organizing better!

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:49 pm

Dear Guest,

Your comments certainly raise a valid point concerning pressuring the organisers to do a better job of organising the match, as this was part of the strategy used to convince the Grand Prix organisers to do likewise. Unfortunately there's also a flip side to the coin - higher visibility also means higher likelihood of raised awareness at the border crossing point. ModernPent had already been provided a full suite of information, including legal references which took a fair amount of my time to obtain. My note was more an expression of frustration as it appears ModernPent thought so little of the info provided that he would seek alternate opinions in an open forum.

And by the way, with the Canadian government and it's ridiculous firearms laws there is no sense in arguing from a position of logic or common sense, let alone using such high-minded ideals as precedence. The government has an agenda and will do anything to stick to it, including defying its own laws, logic and the will of the people.

cbpersel · Post by **cbpersel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 pm

I`m curious . . . what is the agenda of the Canadian government?

Craig

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:25 pm

Since the laws seem to apply only to guns (and, more specifically pistols since "long guns" don't seem to be a problem) that shoot at greater than 500fps, it would seem that one could simply shoot some very heavy pellets if a chronograph test is part of the crossing process and switch back to your standard pellet during the match?

There is no energy limit -- you could shoot a 500lb ball at less than 500fps and that would be a legal "gun."

cbpersel · Post by **cbpersel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:39 pm

I don`t believe a chronograph test is part of the crossing process. They have a list of airguns that are classified as firearms and they are considered as unless you have specific documentation stating it has been legitimately modified to less than 500 fps.

Craig

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:51 am

Contrary to the statement made by a previous poster, Canadian airgun regulations do indeed include an energy limit as well as the muzzle velocity limit of 152.4m/s. The energy limit is 5.7 jules. Note this is not a typo, it is 5.7 jules, versus the 7.5 jule European limit as designated by the letter "F" inside the pentagon symbol which you'll find stamped on most European-made competition airguns, except the high-velocity field target air rifles.

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:08 pm

Getting an air rifle into Canada and back into the US was a non-event this last weekend for the Canadian Field Target Championships. I went through Canadian Customs with nothing more than their checking my gun's serial number and paying $25CA. Getting back into the US was "I have an airgun I am returning with."

Unfortunately, they do seem to treat almost any pistol with completely different (and more stringent) rules.

Best,

Joe