To the forum:
I have a question, according to the ISSF, the air pistols for shot match can not be more heavy of 1,5 Kg, I never understood this norm, it would seem that the more heavy pistols have some advantage, most of these European pistols weigh around 1,1Kg and the tendency is to make them more light.
As I come from the IZH46M, that it is a heavy pistol (1,3Kg), to my previous gun FWB P30 I increased him some weight, the thing is that now that I have received a new one Feinwerkbau P40, I feel it a little light.
the question is , do I get used the gun light or I also increase him weight to stay in the range of pistols more heavy? (assuming that it is not galling to maintain the heavy gun during the match)
Nano Zamora
heavy pistols are best?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
-
Steve Swartz
Nano:
Thank you for the fascinating question! Of course, there are no simple answers . . . only trade-offs.
Here's the "conventional wisdom."
A heavier gun (ceteris paribus) will be more stable up to a point- when the gun is so heavy that fatigue is induced during a match, or even difficult to hold steady for an individual shot, then the stability is lost.
For each individual shooter (based on muscle tone and capability), there will be a "total weight sweet spot" in that very low weights will tend to be more susceptible to disruption from sources of error in the platform (your body). As weight increases, the stability (resistance to disruption) will increase. At some point, the stability will begin to decrease as the gun gets "too heavy."
Add to that the following consideration: weight distribution. As the center of gravity of the gun shifts forward (from the grip), instability from the wrist is dampened; again, untilt he gun becomes too "nose heavy" at which point the wrist instability increases.
That's the conventional wisdom.
Your Mileage May Vary. I have heard several "new theories" that tend to favor lighter, less nose heavy designs. Not sure if there is any actual scholarship on this matter other than some shooters and coaches seem to be "absolutely convinced" that this is hte way to go.
Without rigorous experimentation on what works FOR YOU, you might as well ascribe to the theory that putting your underwear on backwards results in more tens. That would be just as scientifically valid.
By the way, in any case, the total weight/weight distribution issue will ONLY become a factor when you are shooting 580+ consistently. Until you get to that point, concentrate on something that actually matters. Like sight alignment and trigger control.
Steve Swartz
Thank you for the fascinating question! Of course, there are no simple answers . . . only trade-offs.
Here's the "conventional wisdom."
A heavier gun (ceteris paribus) will be more stable up to a point- when the gun is so heavy that fatigue is induced during a match, or even difficult to hold steady for an individual shot, then the stability is lost.
For each individual shooter (based on muscle tone and capability), there will be a "total weight sweet spot" in that very low weights will tend to be more susceptible to disruption from sources of error in the platform (your body). As weight increases, the stability (resistance to disruption) will increase. At some point, the stability will begin to decrease as the gun gets "too heavy."
Add to that the following consideration: weight distribution. As the center of gravity of the gun shifts forward (from the grip), instability from the wrist is dampened; again, untilt he gun becomes too "nose heavy" at which point the wrist instability increases.
That's the conventional wisdom.
Your Mileage May Vary. I have heard several "new theories" that tend to favor lighter, less nose heavy designs. Not sure if there is any actual scholarship on this matter other than some shooters and coaches seem to be "absolutely convinced" that this is hte way to go.
Without rigorous experimentation on what works FOR YOU, you might as well ascribe to the theory that putting your underwear on backwards results in more tens. That would be just as scientifically valid.
By the way, in any case, the total weight/weight distribution issue will ONLY become a factor when you are shooting 580+ consistently. Until you get to that point, concentrate on something that actually matters. Like sight alignment and trigger control.
Steve Swartz
Then again Steve, there could be something in it.
Since I got a Morini Short 10 months ago to replace my old FWB Model 80 I have struggled to maintain my previous average scores.
I have been thinking of adding some weight to the Morini, which is extremely light, to see if it makes a difference.
I liked the idea voiced elsewhere in this forum about cutting down plastic 35mm film canisters so they can clip onto the air cyclinder and adding weight to the clips in the form of stick on tyre weights.
Cheers Colin
Since I got a Morini Short 10 months ago to replace my old FWB Model 80 I have struggled to maintain my previous average scores.
I have been thinking of adding some weight to the Morini, which is extremely light, to see if it makes a difference.
I liked the idea voiced elsewhere in this forum about cutting down plastic 35mm film canisters so they can clip onto the air cyclinder and adding weight to the clips in the form of stick on tyre weights.
Cheers Colin
I have dabbled with a much greater weight - getting the (air) gun near the 1.5Kg limit. It appeared to help quite a bit but that was just for a dozen or so shots. If you seriously want to try it you'd need to give it a full season to properly evaluate it and I for one aren't that bothered about it. If it really was that important I'd imagine there'd be more (at least some) air pistols weighing 1.4+ Kg and there aren't.
Rob.
Rob.
-
Steve Swartz
Remember guys the general finding/premise that there is a "bowl shaped curve" for both total weight and fore-aft weight distribution.
Avoid going crazy in either direction (light vs heavy; front vs. rear) and play around with intermediate settings and find your own "sweet spot."
But don't spend so much time fooling around with the whole "center of gravity" issue that you ignore quality front sight-trigger time . . . just work into your regular training program a couple of different variations and train as you normally would. Then just take notes on what seems to feel better.
Steve Swartz
Avoid going crazy in either direction (light vs heavy; front vs. rear) and play around with intermediate settings and find your own "sweet spot."
But don't spend so much time fooling around with the whole "center of gravity" issue that you ignore quality front sight-trigger time . . . just work into your regular training program a couple of different variations and train as you normally would. Then just take notes on what seems to feel better.
Steve Swartz
Could be it's a bit like the 'standard' grips supplied with target pistols. Most manufacturers supply a grip that can be modified to fit - shock, horror; grind into that prety grip that cost so much?RobStubbs wrote: If it really was that important I'd imagine there'd be more (at least some) air pistols weighing 1.4+ Kg and there aren't.
Rob.
For pistol weight, they make a pistol to suit the average shooter, and the average shooter will find a 1500g pistol too heavy. Holding a 1500g pistol for 40 / 60 precision shots will tire the muscles of a shooter who is not in serious training.
It would be interesting to know the weight of the air pistols of the world top 10 male and female shooters...
Spencer C