Do you have to register your AP?

[Reinhamre]

In Sweden only a 5-shot air pistol require a license.
Oh, one must be over 18 years, but who isn´t
How is it for the rest of you? Are you free to "shop till you drop"?
Are AP´s prohibited anywhere?

I have a feeling that many of you are like married to your AP.
It takes years to see if an AP is better than another AP (for me) and then I shoot them parallel. Used guns are dropping marginally in value. Do buy if the occasion arises. If you like an AP there is always a brand new in the store that you can “marry”

Regards
Kent

[riskmanager]

Believe it or not, here in the US gun control laws are pretty strict depending on which state you happen to reside in (don’t let Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 fool you). For instance, air pistols and rifles are not considered firm arms in one state and in another state they are. Additionally, interstate transport of APs can be considered as transporting firearms in some states. I would think most AP shooters in the US are conscientious people and would follow their local gun control laws. APs are not toys but I think some states have taken the mistaken view that APs are firearms.

[F. Paul in Denver]

Reinharme,

As has already been correctly pointed out, the regulation of firearms and even the very definition of a firearm has traditionally been subject to federal, state, county and even municipal (city) control in the US.

When it comes to firearms, we are a nation of many conflicting rules. Competitors who travel with firearms are especially at risk since they face the almost impossible job of trying to comply with a patchwork of different rules and regulations depending on their route and destination.

Speaking only for my home state of Colorado - I'm proud to say it is one of the most gun friendly places to live on earth. Recently, there has been a long awaited movement towards favoring state law over local control of firearms regulation. Before this happened, you could commit a serious fireamrs violation and be subject to arrest just for driving from from one adjoining city to another. That's right - if you drive from one street corner to the next and you happened to cross a boundary separating a friendly city from a hostile city - you were in violation.

While there is a good argument for local control, the problem is that no human being can possibly be expected to familiarize themselves with laws which change at every other intersection.

As an attorney, I have successfully defended many clients who were charged with conduct considered unlawful in one jurisdiction but who would have been in complete compliance in another. The sad part is that they were ever prosecuted to begin with and the only person coming out as the winner is the lawyer.

In Colorado firearms possession does not require licensing, there is no cooling off period or prior police approval required before purchase. Obtaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon is very easy for a person without a criminal record.

As an attorney, I would be very interested in collecting information from some of you who live outside the US regarding legal ownership of firearms including AP's.

Good shooting to us all.

[cbpersel]

I am an American living in Canada (Montreal) and the laws are much more restrictive. In Canada, any rifle or pistol shooting over 500 fps is considered a firearm and requires an ownership license and transportation permit. This means that all competitive air rifles and pistols fit this category. However, most of the manufacturers (e.g. Steyr, Morini, Feinwerkbau, etc.) ship specially de-tuned equipment to Canada that shoot at 495 fps, thus falling below any regulations. They are stamped and come with proper paperwork. I purchased both a Morini 162EI and Feinwerkbau 700 that have been de-tuned to < 500 fps.

[Walter]

About 15 years ago in Massachusetts I decided I wanted to buy an air pistol for plinking in my backyard.
I found out that I needed a license to carry handguns for this.
So I went and filled out the forms, took the classes and got fingerprinted, just to be able to buy an air pistol.
About 4 months later I got my LTC and went to the gun shop and looked at the air pistols for about a second and then bought a 22, and then later, a 38, and then a 44, and then finally, after I spent all my money on bullets, an air pistol.
I probably would never have gotten into shooting all that much if it wasn't for the state making me get a gun license for an AP.
The state has recently changed this law so that there are now no restrictions on air pistols.

[Guest]

Here in Victoria, Australia, Hand gun laws are very tight, particularly after a uni student killed a few class mates a few years back.

Basically the laws for hand guns (including air pistol) are as follows.

1. If you want to try an air pistol, and you do not have a hand gun licence, you can only do so supervised at a gun club after filling in a police form. This can only ever be done three times, after that you either have to get a licence or never shoot a pistol again.

2. To get a 'probationary' licence, you must become a member of an approved gun club ( which requires two character references ). Be finger printed and fill in another police form. Then you can sit a three day training session with your club and then sit a multiple choice questionaire. At this point you are free to shoot unsupervised only at a gun club.

3. Probationary period lasts for 6 months (or 9 depending if you ask for an extention). At this point you are not allowed to own a pistol, so you must either use someone elses gun or a club gun. To promote to a full pistol, you must compete in 6 club competitions for each type of pistol you wish to own (ie, 6 air pistol comps, 6 .22 comps etc) as well as 4 "other" types of club involvement (ie. scheduled training sessions). These must be evenly spread over the whole period.

4. If you have done all that, its another police form to upgrade to full licence, which has to be presented to the club for confirmation. Once they have ratified that you are a safe shooter, and after you have submitted your forms, you upgrade to full licence holder.

5. At this point you can begin the process of buying a hand gun! Another police form (talk about paperwork) outlining EVERYTHING about the gun you wish to buy, needs to be signed by the club and sent to the police. The club then organises to send the secretary out to your place to ensure that you have installed (mounted) a safe for the pistol. If the police agrees with the application, you have 1 month to complete the transaction or the form is void and needs to be re-submitted. This needs to be done for each pistol you wish to purchase.

6. To keep your pistol licence, you must have 10 competative shoots a year with each pistol type for the full year, and maintain your club membership - no club membership means no licence.

[sparky]

Here in Texas, we can have basically anything we want. Buying a firearm (air pistols not included) from a store requires an instant background check. Getting a machinegun or silencer requires a lot of paperwork, fingerprinting, a sign-off by your local police chief, and a $200 tax stamp and the machinegun must have been made prior to 1986. A concealed weapons permit is required to carry a gun concealed and is pretty easy to get (must be issued to you unless you're a prohibited person), but it requires a class, some paperwork, and a fee of about $100.

Thank G-d I don't live in Victoria, Australia. Are all of the other areas in Australia similar, or are there any places less or more restrictive?

[Fred Mannis]

I am so thankful that my great grandfather left Australia in 1865 and came to the U.S.! My grandmother was born on board the boat in mid Atlantic.
I have liked every Australian I have ever met, but the government is another matter.
Fred

[Sparks]

The situation in Ireland is in flux at the moment, but basicly is that since 1972, courtesy of the Troubles, no pistols were allowed except for starter pistols (which needed a licence) and humane dispatchers for vets. That included air pistols. Then about eight months ago, that was changed (it was never legislation, but was government policy instead). Today, there are no restrictions on what you can apply for a licence for, and so long as you're not a known criminal or nutter, you usually get it. (Applications are dealt with by the local garda superintendent, so he/she has the final say, and that means that different districts have different levels of tolerance for firearms). This may all change later this year, however.

[deleted1]

The Great City of New York does not permit Air Pistol nor Rifles. Elsewhere in the Vampire State there are no caveats that I personally know of---Bob R. in Plattsburgh NY Br-r-r-r-r

[mikeschroeder]

Hi

In Wichita KS, air rifles are illegal to shoot except in registered "shooting parlors". In Belaire and Park City, (Wichita Suburbs) they are completely illegal, not being covered by the second Amendment.

In Wichita, air guns must be locked in a case at all times. You have to buy one at Walmart when you buy the gun. If the police see you in Walmart buying , they have arrested people in the parking lot and confisated the gun.

We're looking at hosting a national event and several of our club's officers are talking with Park CIty and Wichita about a law change in the name of economic development.

Mike
Wichita KS

[bluechucky]

Hi Guys,

I'm the "Guest" from victoria, Australia above.

Getting a machinegun or silencer requires a lot of paperwork, fingerprinting, a sign-off by your local police chief, and a $200 tax stamp and the machinegun must have been made prior to 1986.

Full Auto's and silencer's are outlawed in Australia.

Thank G-d I don't live in Victoria, Australia. Are all of the other areas in Australia similar, or are there any places less or more restrictive?

Firearm laws are state based, but heavily influenced by the federal government. I beleive they are a much of a muchness.

Yeah, they are restrictive (especially for Air Pistols), and as someone who hates paperwork, can be a bit tiresome, but I can see why it's there. I guess it comes down to cultural differences. My understanding is that Americans see gun ownership as a right. We don't.

[olli]

Hello everybody, and greetings from Finland! This is my first post to TargetTalk.

Airguns, regardless of their power, are not considered as firearms in Finland. They do not require a license or registration. One is not allowed to give an airgun to a person under 18 years old without his/her parent's supervision or written permission.

[F. Paul in Denver]

I was astonished to hear what Mike Schroeder told us about airgun restrictions in his hometown in Kansas. From the sounds of it, airguns are regulated even more severely than firearms by the local govt.

Mike if this is true, can you tell us why?? Was vandalism or some other illegal use of airguns responsible for what seems like a very heavy handed approach??

(F. Paul steps up on soapbox here)

Getting arrested for merely transporting a new purchase from the store to the car is an outrage and a shameful way for local law enforcement to conduct itself. One wonders why Walmart would even allow a customer to leave the store under conditions which would subject a customer to immediate arrest on its own premises.

Why isnt law enforcement filing criminal charges against Walmart Inc. as aiders and abetters?? If a private citizen is expected to know the law, shouldnt we hold corporate citizens to at least the same requirement?
Heck, since corporate citizens profit from the customers "illicit" conduct, should they not be held to an even higher standard??

I'm not advocating that law enforcement throw out an even wider net and make a miserable situation worse - my point is that if law enforcement also pursued Walmart, this corporate giant would likely bring significant resources to bear on this obscene situation. Then we would have a much more level playing field.

Bluechucky - you are absolutely correct, Americans traditionally view gun ownership as an inalienable right. This philosophy is not only firmly grounded in legal precedent but it has developed very deep roots in our culture as well.

But one philosophy we Americans also believe in is a sense of FAIR PLAY. I believe this credo is not unique to Americans but that it is a common thread that unites all civilized people. Unforntunately however, it is sometimes ignored by our "civilized" governments.

Maybe the local law enforcement bullies described by Mr. Schroeder should learn to pick on someone there own size.





F. Paul Figlia - Las Vegas Metropolitan Police - Retired (and sometimes disgusted with my former profession).

[QUICKBRICK]

Here in the U.K anyone over the age of 17 can purchase an air pistol as long as the muzzle energy limit is under 6 ft.lbs. Any pistol over this limit is completely banned.

[Reinhamre]

Is that any near what a normal AP vill produce?
Kent

[cbpersel]

I believe that most AP's produce less than 6 ft.lbs. of energy. For example, an 8 grain pellet shooting at a velocity of 525 fps will produce 4.9 ft. lbs. of energy.

Here is a nifty online muzzle energy calculator.

http://pyramydair.com/site/articles/formulas/

Craig Persel

[Fortitudo Dei]

Here in New Zealand, anyone over the age of 18 can purchase an air pistol or air rifle of any power. This age drops to 16 if the person also holds a standard or “A” category firearms licence. An “A” licence allows the holder to own any number of sporting rifles and shotguns and these do not have to be registered. Anyone under the age of 16 may use airguns, rifles, and shotguns if under the direct supervision of a licence holder. If semi-auto, magazines (or shotgun tubes) must be limited to 7 rounds (centrefire) or 15 rounds (rimfire).
Additional licence categories are “B” (pistol ownership), “E” (military semi-automatics e.g. AR15’s & AK’s, with high capacity magazines), and “C” (collectors licence – enables you to own almost whatever you want including fully functioning machine guns, RPG’s, mortar tubes – you name it – BUT you are not allowed to fire them).
There is no restriction on silencers – how else is a farmer supposed to shoot rabbits (an introduced endemic pest) without panicking his sheep?
My personal feeling is that New Zealand’s firearms law is among the best legislation of its type in the world. It restricts firearms ownership to those who are fit and proper without being unduly harsh or bureaucratic.
It is based on the premise that firearms ownership is not a right – it is a privilege.

[JPM]

In Michigan, an Air Pistol is still a pistol . . . so you have to pay your $5 and have the serial number recorded at the police office.

Also, an air rifle is considered a firearm if the barrel is not smooth bore. So BB-Guns are not firearms, but any competition gun is. But, no registration or paperwork is required.

I started to work with my local representative to get this changed, he was working on it and then lost the last election by a couple hundred votes.

JPM

[R.E. Smalley]

[quote="F. Paul in Denver"]I was astonished to hear what Mike Schroeder told us about airgun restrictions in his hometown in Kansas. From the sounds of it, airguns are regulated even more severely than firearms by the local govt.


Mike if this is true, can you tell us why??

<snip>


From the post, I gathered it was merely because they could, since air guns are not covered by the second amendment. (Actually, my first thought was duh! What!?!)

It sounds like someone wanted to start restricting guns and started with the easiest type to legislate, regardless of the sense of it.

Ed