This is the last year that 4-H is allowing Daisy 888's and XS40's in the silhouette competition.
The rule that disallows them is 3.3b which states that pre-charged systems must use 12 gram CO2 cartridges.
I've heard that there is a CO2 tube for the 888 that allows the use of the commertcial 12gr cylinders.
Does anyone know where to get these or do they even exist?
Joel Martin
Peralta, NM
4-H, Silhouette, & Daisy 888's
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
-
mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi
Does this mean we have to use either 853's or Crossman 2000's. We are in the process of selling off all of the club's pump air rifles of any kind, and we don't have ANY crosmans. We have three crosman 2000's that we have used, but we spent a LOT of time fixing them. We are also buying say 5-10 888's. Guess we're screwing up. On the other hand, I've never even seen an air rifle Silhouette match.....
Mike
Wichita KS
Does this mean we have to use either 853's or Crossman 2000's. We are in the process of selling off all of the club's pump air rifles of any kind, and we don't have ANY crosmans. We have three crosman 2000's that we have used, but we spent a LOT of time fixing them. We are also buying say 5-10 888's. Guess we're screwing up. On the other hand, I've never even seen an air rifle Silhouette match.....
Mike
Wichita KS
Starting in 2006 4-H will require conformance to Rule 3.3b in the NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules (NRA CS16820). I think the Jan 2003 revision is the latest and 3.3b states:
[i]“Any unaltered factory sporter air rifle that is or was a catalogue item, readily available over the counter to the general public, weighing no more than 11 pounds, with scope and mounts. Rifles utilizing pre-charged systems of any kind other than 12.0 gram disposable CO2 units are prohibited. "[/i]
The 4-H Feb 18 Rules mod states:
[i]"4-H EXCEPTION: In 2004 and 2005, Daisy models Avanti 888 and Valiant XSV-40 will be permitted. Beginning in 2006 only equipment allowed per the NRA Sporter Air Rifle Silhouette rules (as stated above) will be permitted. This allows a 2-year transition period.”[/i]
Now to me this means that the 888's and XS40's are not allowed next year (2006). So definately the 853's, 753's and Crossman 2000's will probably be most common ...
[b]BUT....[/b] [u]the 11 pound part of the rule[/u] brings in a lot more "sporter" type rifles. I think we'll see more of the less expensive Daisy, more Gamo and other off the shelf rifles. (w/ and w/o scopes)
I've personally purchased a TF79TH to try out.
(available thru compasseco, Arizona Airguns, ... don't know if Pilkguns have this) (~$145 now).
It also primarily uses the 12 gram cylinders. (when you study this rifle, it says it uses 2 12gr cylinders back to back, but only the rearward cylinder is pierced). This has been shooting very well with a 3-9X scope ... I've not put it in a vise yet and fired it. For long firing sessions (with the 12gr cylinder you'll get even fewer shots than with a Crossman 2000 ... it is an 830fps gun), I've been charging the rifle as a bulk fill instead ... kind of a neat feature here.
[b]NOTE HERE:[/b] [i]The TF79's are a bit too heavy for Sporter 3-P with the muzzle weights attached ... You would have to pull these off to shoot them (legal) 3-P[/i]
I still think the 888's are the way to go for the 4-H 3P and 40-Shot Standing events. We just ordered 4.
I chatted with Denise at Daisy and she knows of no such adapter .... I don't have a 888 tube to look at and play with yet, but I'm hoping someone have come up with a way to make this gun work with the small 12gr cylinders ....
[i]“Any unaltered factory sporter air rifle that is or was a catalogue item, readily available over the counter to the general public, weighing no more than 11 pounds, with scope and mounts. Rifles utilizing pre-charged systems of any kind other than 12.0 gram disposable CO2 units are prohibited. "[/i]
The 4-H Feb 18 Rules mod states:
[i]"4-H EXCEPTION: In 2004 and 2005, Daisy models Avanti 888 and Valiant XSV-40 will be permitted. Beginning in 2006 only equipment allowed per the NRA Sporter Air Rifle Silhouette rules (as stated above) will be permitted. This allows a 2-year transition period.”[/i]
Now to me this means that the 888's and XS40's are not allowed next year (2006). So definately the 853's, 753's and Crossman 2000's will probably be most common ...
[b]BUT....[/b] [u]the 11 pound part of the rule[/u] brings in a lot more "sporter" type rifles. I think we'll see more of the less expensive Daisy, more Gamo and other off the shelf rifles. (w/ and w/o scopes)
I've personally purchased a TF79TH to try out.
(available thru compasseco, Arizona Airguns, ... don't know if Pilkguns have this) (~$145 now).
It also primarily uses the 12 gram cylinders. (when you study this rifle, it says it uses 2 12gr cylinders back to back, but only the rearward cylinder is pierced). This has been shooting very well with a 3-9X scope ... I've not put it in a vise yet and fired it. For long firing sessions (with the 12gr cylinder you'll get even fewer shots than with a Crossman 2000 ... it is an 830fps gun), I've been charging the rifle as a bulk fill instead ... kind of a neat feature here.
[b]NOTE HERE:[/b] [i]The TF79's are a bit too heavy for Sporter 3-P with the muzzle weights attached ... You would have to pull these off to shoot them (legal) 3-P[/i]
I still think the 888's are the way to go for the 4-H 3P and 40-Shot Standing events. We just ordered 4.
I chatted with Denise at Daisy and she knows of no such adapter .... I don't have a 888 tube to look at and play with yet, but I'm hoping someone have come up with a way to make this gun work with the small 12gr cylinders ....
-
cmj
TF79
That TF79 should be piercing both the front and the back cartridge. Should be good for about 60 shots. Got one for my daughter, and do not find it very accurate. her 853 and 888 much more accurate for her. Have a real hard time even on a bench getting any kind of consistency like all over the target and try and adjust the sights is almost hopeless. IE we flat dont like it and she wont shoot it even though it is lighter than her 888 and she is little. Can't pump the 853, so needed something she could shoot.
Hmmmmm....
I have the TF79 in the thumbhole stock. It has a valve up front for the bulk fill that I have to take apart to get the front cartridge in. There is nothing up front to pierce the front cartridge.
I now made a delrin "plug" to put in instead of the front cartridge.
I'll call compasseco and find out what's up.
Also Weight .... Mine weighed in at 7 lbs 7 oz w/o sights. When I put on the sights it goes up to 7 lbs 11 oz (over the legal 7.5 lb sporter limit)
I have the TF79 in the thumbhole stock. It has a valve up front for the bulk fill that I have to take apart to get the front cartridge in. There is nothing up front to pierce the front cartridge.
I now made a delrin "plug" to put in instead of the front cartridge.
I'll call compasseco and find out what's up.
Also Weight .... Mine weighed in at 7 lbs 7 oz w/o sights. When I put on the sights it goes up to 7 lbs 11 oz (over the legal 7.5 lb sporter limit)
Recent rule changes by the NRA competition committee has created quite a stir to say the least for those adults who shoot the game. My understanding is the rule changes were made to the "sporter" class in a way to INCLUDE std 4H equipment such as the 888s. I guess my take is rules are in flux and there may be some refinement to what we are hearing today.
Have 6 club 888s and for fun we do put scopes on a few and let the kids shoot Air MS. But now we are off "olympic style shooting" rule so I will say no more. Best discussed on other boards.
Have 6 club 888s and for fun we do put scopes on a few and let the kids shoot Air MS. But now we are off "olympic style shooting" rule so I will say no more. Best discussed on other boards.
Unfortunately, the 2003 rules changes EXCLUDE some of the more popular equipment by eliminating all but the 12 gram cartridges for the stored gas type guns
This will be the last year 4-H allows the 888 and XS40 ... which in some ways is regrettable, but it gave us two year to comply with the NGB which is the NRA MS rules.
This will also mean that guns with only one 12gram cartridge cannot complete a full 40 shot Air MS round without a cartridge change .... which means that technically any time you change a cartridge and fire off a few empty shots to get the piercing and gas pressure up, these should count as misses. So again, technically, the Crosman 2000 is not useful either.
That is why I've picked up the TF79, which uses two 12 gram cartridges, and piercing the upper one during cartridge insertion seems to give you full pressure on the first shot after the change ... just in case you have to do a change out.
To me it seems that this rule by the NRA, will begin to have some ugly unintended consequences for 4-H next year in 2006. It will effectively eliminate three of the most popular guns 4-H uses for the Air MS.
(well I'm not too sure how well the Crosman shoots at 45 yds anyway ... on a slighty windy day, I can watch the pellet in the scope do some pretty squirrely things!)
Joel Martin
Valencia County, NM
This will be the last year 4-H allows the 888 and XS40 ... which in some ways is regrettable, but it gave us two year to comply with the NGB which is the NRA MS rules.
This will also mean that guns with only one 12gram cartridge cannot complete a full 40 shot Air MS round without a cartridge change .... which means that technically any time you change a cartridge and fire off a few empty shots to get the piercing and gas pressure up, these should count as misses. So again, technically, the Crosman 2000 is not useful either.
That is why I've picked up the TF79, which uses two 12 gram cartridges, and piercing the upper one during cartridge insertion seems to give you full pressure on the first shot after the change ... just in case you have to do a change out.
To me it seems that this rule by the NRA, will begin to have some ugly unintended consequences for 4-H next year in 2006. It will effectively eliminate three of the most popular guns 4-H uses for the Air MS.
(well I'm not too sure how well the Crosman shoots at 45 yds anyway ... on a slighty windy day, I can watch the pellet in the scope do some pretty squirrely things!)
Joel Martin
Valencia County, NM
-
jvenskoske
2005 Air Rifle Silhouette Rule Changes
As of Jan 1, the NRA Sporter Air Rifle for Silhouette will allow an air rifle with a refillable air/gas cylinder (ie the 888, CR2000, XS-40)