Just wondering how low is your average free pistol score when compared with your Air Pistol Score. (point spread). Assuming everyone score in Free is lower than in air.
Best Regards..
Carlos
Air Pistol score vs. Free Pistol Score
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Hello!
Let's try to some dig in this "problem"!
(My coach has already worked with this question)
His calculations pointed on: calibre, distance, target's rings diameters.
Some "magic" numbers:
FP:
10's Dfp=50 mm
Calibre, Cfp=5.6 mm
Distance, Sfp=50000 mm
AP:
10's Dap=11.5 mm
Calibre, Cap=4.5 mm
Distance, Sap=10000 mm
Const.: If we shot with FP and AP using grip vice on distance of 10 meters: the concentration of holes will be approx. the same (I mean distance between centers of holes - who doesn't believe - try it).
Statement #1
Who knows about projections (geometry)?
Let's make projection of AP's target on FP's target:
I don't want to draw in my paint-suite scheme but I'll count:
calculations are easy: we just multiply distance's difference coefficient (DC) on Dap.
DC=Sfp/Sap=5
DC*Dap=5*11.5=57.5 (mm)
57.5 > 50
It was just first statement... did you feel first difference? :) Yeah... AP's target ist bigger. Inverse calculations are the same: FP's taget will be smaller. Conclusion: for comparable results Dap must be 10 mm in diameter (or Dfp must be 57.5 mm...).
Statement #2
Calibres' projections.
As we already know: Let's calculate.
DC*Cap=5*4.5=22.5 (mm)
5.6 < 22.5
... Conclusion: for comparable results Cfp must be 22.5 mm (or Cap must be 1.12 mm...)
Calculations were made for "exact physic systems"... but in real shooting with real shooters: situation is the approx. the same. If we try to dig deeper - we can find "table", using it... we could, for ex., to convert results between these events (I mean AP and FP), but it's hard and boring.
Sincerely,
Igor
Let's try to some dig in this "problem"!
(My coach has already worked with this question)
His calculations pointed on: calibre, distance, target's rings diameters.
Some "magic" numbers:
FP:
10's Dfp=50 mm
Calibre, Cfp=5.6 mm
Distance, Sfp=50000 mm
AP:
10's Dap=11.5 mm
Calibre, Cap=4.5 mm
Distance, Sap=10000 mm
Const.: If we shot with FP and AP using grip vice on distance of 10 meters: the concentration of holes will be approx. the same (I mean distance between centers of holes - who doesn't believe - try it).
Statement #1
Who knows about projections (geometry)?
Let's make projection of AP's target on FP's target:
I don't want to draw in my paint-suite scheme but I'll count:
calculations are easy: we just multiply distance's difference coefficient (DC) on Dap.
DC=Sfp/Sap=5
DC*Dap=5*11.5=57.5 (mm)
57.5 > 50
It was just first statement... did you feel first difference? :) Yeah... AP's target ist bigger. Inverse calculations are the same: FP's taget will be smaller. Conclusion: for comparable results Dap must be 10 mm in diameter (or Dfp must be 57.5 mm...).
Statement #2
Calibres' projections.
As we already know: Let's calculate.
DC*Cap=5*4.5=22.5 (mm)
5.6 < 22.5
... Conclusion: for comparable results Cfp must be 22.5 mm (or Cap must be 1.12 mm...)
Calculations were made for "exact physic systems"... but in real shooting with real shooters: situation is the approx. the same. If we try to dig deeper - we can find "table", using it... we could, for ex., to convert results between these events (I mean AP and FP), but it's hard and boring.
Sincerely,
Igor
FP 549 ~ 530
AP 573 ~ 560
Another thread on sight radius. SCATT trace lengths on AP 80-100 and FP 500 + a bit and minus more. The last untitled column I call the snatch-factor is the key to smooth triggering and great for both AP and FP. I do find I sometimes shoot some very nice shots (low snatch-factor) on SCATT FP at 10 scaled target only to be aiming in slightly the wrong place so I call a good 9/10 and it prints an 8. These don’t bother me so much as I know it will not happen outdoors on the 50m range, so accepting this limitation, it is a great training. PB on SCATT is only 530. Be interested to know of others SCATT FP experiences/tips.
I find training both AP/FP compliment one another. Last month, twice, I was frustrated as I shot 94-96 FP in the last series then to go indoors and struggle for a 95-94 in the first AP series.
Ruig, is an equation in your mind; would be interesting to see some examples to see if numbers work. Just a thought, accuracy of ammunition for FP would also be a factor. For example, a decent Eley/Lapua match to a Morini CM84e will easily give in vice sub 21mm group, sub 18mm on a good day.
AP 573 ~ 560
Another thread on sight radius. SCATT trace lengths on AP 80-100 and FP 500 + a bit and minus more. The last untitled column I call the snatch-factor is the key to smooth triggering and great for both AP and FP. I do find I sometimes shoot some very nice shots (low snatch-factor) on SCATT FP at 10 scaled target only to be aiming in slightly the wrong place so I call a good 9/10 and it prints an 8. These don’t bother me so much as I know it will not happen outdoors on the 50m range, so accepting this limitation, it is a great training. PB on SCATT is only 530. Be interested to know of others SCATT FP experiences/tips.
I find training both AP/FP compliment one another. Last month, twice, I was frustrated as I shot 94-96 FP in the last series then to go indoors and struggle for a 95-94 in the first AP series.
Ruig, is an equation in your mind; would be interesting to see some examples to see if numbers work. Just a thought, accuracy of ammunition for FP would also be a factor. For example, a decent Eley/Lapua match to a Morini CM84e will easily give in vice sub 21mm group, sub 18mm on a good day.
-
Guest
AP score rel. FP score
Fabian:
According to my experiences over many years, the score difference at 60 shot matches would be about 35 pts.
E.g.: A reasonable FP score of 540 equals an AP score of 575. Or FP 530 equals AP 565.
According to my experiences over many years, the score difference at 60 shot matches would be about 35 pts.
E.g.: A reasonable FP score of 540 equals an AP score of 575. Or FP 530 equals AP 565.
Air Pistol score vs. Free Pistol Score
I agree with the two answers above. 540 vs. 575.
Must try shooting airpistol and make the SCATT believe that I am shooting free pistol. It should prowide an ansver I suppose.
Kent
Must try shooting airpistol and make the SCATT believe that I am shooting free pistol. It should prowide an ansver I suppose.
Kent
By my reconing I should be shooting 20 or even 30 points higher scores in free than I do then ;)
Mine are AP - 570 ~ 555
FP about 510 ~ 500
I should point out that I hardly shoot my free pistol (only about once a month) , whereas I shoot AP 3 or 4 times a week. So I guess that probably explains the greater than average disconnect in scores.
Rob.
Mine are AP - 570 ~ 555
FP about 510 ~ 500
I should point out that I hardly shoot my free pistol (only about once a month) , whereas I shoot AP 3 or 4 times a week. So I guess that probably explains the greater than average disconnect in scores.
Rob.
I don't want to affirm,... but when I trained eight months with national team, one fellow said to me that it's better to shot/train more FP than AP. FP improves thin senses. And everything he did: he trained FP,... when he has AP match, he has just taken AP a day before match and shoted some.RobStubbs wrote: I should point out that I hardly shoot my free pistol (only about once a month) , whereas I shoot AP 3 or 4 times a week. So I guess that probably explains the greater than average disconnect in scores.
(his usual results were:... FP=540-565 and AP=565-575... he was 19 years,... 4 years ago). Others members approx. trained FP 2/3 and AP 1/3 of all time.
I wouldn't disagree and I'm sure that if I were able to shoot FP more it would deffinately help my AP. I have some bad habits which really kill me in free which I can more often than not get away with in AP. Shooting free more often would force them out of me. Unfortunately I just don't have enough, or any, decent facilities (ranges) near me where I can shoot free whereas I have an air range within 5 mins of my house - which I can use 24/7.ruig wrote: I don't want to affirm,... but when I trained eight months with national team, one fellow said to me that it's better to shot/train more FP than AP. FP improves thin senses. And everything he did: he trained FP,... when he has AP match, he has just taken AP a day before match and shoted some.
(his usual results were:... FP=540-565 and AP=565-575... he was 19 years,... 4 years ago). Others members approx. trained FP 2/3 and AP 1/3 of all time.
I will have to make more of an effort with free though and perhaps that should be my new years resolution <g>
Rob.
That has crossed my mind but I'm currently dry firing 2-3 times a week with the AP and I'm not sure I'd benefit swapping to dry firing with the FP when I would get to shoot it so infrequently and I don't want to compromise the AP. I may investigate it later in the year when the season calms down competition wise i.e. after our national air championships.ruig wrote:RobStubbs
Haven't possibility:
Some dry fire? Just a little... 25-30 minutes every other day.
Rob.
I did some analysis a while back using normal distributions for shooter performance and predicting scores as a function of standard deviation of the shooter. By comparing the geometry differences between ap and free, I came up with the following relationship:
FP score = (1.589*air pistol score) - 365.53.
An air pistol score of 565 yields a FP score of 532.25.
This seem's pretty close to what everyone is shooting.
I obviously have way too much time on my hands.
Steve.
FP score = (1.589*air pistol score) - 365.53.
An air pistol score of 565 yields a FP score of 532.25.
This seem's pretty close to what everyone is shooting.
I obviously have way too much time on my hands.
Steve.