My current trigger setting is not engaging the second stage at all. The shot gets released before any action on the second stage spring.
If I turn off the switch and pull on the trigger, the second stage does eventually come into play. Not with the switch on.
At first I thought that the second stage was set to zero so I kept increasing the weight to no avail. Then I tried lowering the tension on the first stage but regardless of the scenario the shot always goes off before the second stage is engaged.
The other thing I noticed is that the spec says that the maximum first stage weight is 300g. Since I can not seem to be able to use the second stage I've tried and succeeded in setting the first stage to the required 500g.
So all the 500g are on the first stage spring.
Two questions:
1- How to get the second stage to engage?
2- Having no second stage may be considered a good feature by some people. Am I compromising the first stage spring's physical characteristics by exceeding the 300g maximum spec weight to make it meet the 500g requirement? Will the spring eventually deform under the excess weight by reaching it's elastic limit?
Can anyone from the Morini factory give me their take on these two questions?
Any help will be appreciated; but because this is such a great gun I'd hate to damage it by not following the factory recommendations.
Thank you in advance!
Regards,
Luis
Morini 162EI Trigger Adjustment
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Luis Medina
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Did you try the adjustments given in the Morini CM162EI Problems thread?
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Luis Medina
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
David,
As I read the old thread there is a very subtle difference between the problem listed there and the problem I have.
The bulk of the solution given deals with the trigger being diabled intermitently. Step by step instructions are given to basically reset the trigger and reassembling it.
My problem really starts where the steps for fixing that problem end(step 10). Setting the trigger travel, weight to my liking is what I'm grapling with.
Believe me I've read through it many times and my problem is slightly different.
As I read the old thread there is a very subtle difference between the problem listed there and the problem I have.
The bulk of the solution given deals with the trigger being diabled intermitently. Step by step instructions are given to basically reset the trigger and reassembling it.
My problem really starts where the steps for fixing that problem end(step 10). Setting the trigger travel, weight to my liking is what I'm grapling with.
Believe me I've read through it many times and my problem is slightly different.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Sorry but with your opening line of "My current trigger setting is not engaging the second stage at all." it really does sound extremely close to the problem previously discussed. In fact it sounds so close that I would certainly try carrying out the adjustments described. That's obviously your decision though.
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Tycho
I agree with David. I think it has to be the adjustment of the switch via the vertical allen screw on top of the module. This is not described in any Morini manual, and most people don't know about it. The screw "adjusts" the timing between the spring engagements (from 1st to 2nd) and the opening of the switch, so if the screw is turned too far in, the switch opens before the 2nd spring engages. I'm on vacation, so I don't have one of my Morinis at hand to test this theory, but I would think it to be a grave mistake to ignore it because of some "slight differences". The whole trigger system is very simple, so there can't be that many problems/solutions.
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Steve Swartz
Note that you want to find the spot where the switch breaks contact *at* the second stage pickup . . . and then tweak it ever-so-slightly to release *after* the second stage pickup.
This is best found with the power OFF, as you can then actually feel the "pickup" of the switch. Properly adjusted, with power off, you should feel the second stage "step up" just slightly in front of the "hump" from lifting the switch.
Also note that as a loyal and enthusiastic Morini owner I am absolutely flabbergasted that the pistol would have arrived with that situation- are you certain that you purchased it NIB directly from factory and nobody else had an opportunity to monkey with it first? I would be amazed if it shipped from the factory with the trigger obviously maladjusted as you have described it.
HTH
Steve
This is best found with the power OFF, as you can then actually feel the "pickup" of the switch. Properly adjusted, with power off, you should feel the second stage "step up" just slightly in front of the "hump" from lifting the switch.
Also note that as a loyal and enthusiastic Morini owner I am absolutely flabbergasted that the pistol would have arrived with that situation- are you certain that you purchased it NIB directly from factory and nobody else had an opportunity to monkey with it first? I would be amazed if it shipped from the factory with the trigger obviously maladjusted as you have described it.
HTH
Steve
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Luis Medina
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
David and Tycho,
First of all, thanks for the help!
I think by now I've experimented (played) with the screw and trigger settings enough. Here are my findings:
1- If the top screw is too far out then the problem of the trigger not firing can be recreated.
2- You can set the top screw in incrementally until the solenoid fires.
3- Beyond this point there is not enough travel inwards in the top screw to make a 1/4 turn before it's set tight. This makes me believe that that screw only fixes the contact in place. Reason being is that if it's not set tight and you move the gun around the screw works its way out to the point where the pistol will not fire anymore. Any slack on this screw will eventually increase due to manipulation/transportation vibrations and will disable the trigger mechanism.
4- After a couple of hours of tweaking screws I think I've started noticing some weight on the second stage. I set that screw all the way up to where the spring is completely compressed and the trigger will not fire. Then started adding weight one turn at a time and my finger has become sensitive to the slight variation. Without having a trigger gauge I can not verify the rate of increase but it's obvious some weight is felt as the spring is stretched (or maybe it's just my untrained fingers and mind playing tricks on me).
What I need is to know how much second stage spring movement to expect. By now I've convinced myself that weight is being added.
Can you check your pistols and observe how much travel to expect from the second stage spring before it fires?
By simple observation it is very hard for me to notice any deviation in the leght of the second stage spring after it's been engaged.
I will try to find a trigger gauge and play with only the second stage to verify that weight is being added. If this is true then no need to expect any stretching and the whole post goes from being a problem and becomes a good practice for becoming a Morini technician.
Regards,
Luis
PS Merry Christmas!
First of all, thanks for the help!
I think by now I've experimented (played) with the screw and trigger settings enough. Here are my findings:
1- If the top screw is too far out then the problem of the trigger not firing can be recreated.
2- You can set the top screw in incrementally until the solenoid fires.
3- Beyond this point there is not enough travel inwards in the top screw to make a 1/4 turn before it's set tight. This makes me believe that that screw only fixes the contact in place. Reason being is that if it's not set tight and you move the gun around the screw works its way out to the point where the pistol will not fire anymore. Any slack on this screw will eventually increase due to manipulation/transportation vibrations and will disable the trigger mechanism.
4- After a couple of hours of tweaking screws I think I've started noticing some weight on the second stage. I set that screw all the way up to where the spring is completely compressed and the trigger will not fire. Then started adding weight one turn at a time and my finger has become sensitive to the slight variation. Without having a trigger gauge I can not verify the rate of increase but it's obvious some weight is felt as the spring is stretched (or maybe it's just my untrained fingers and mind playing tricks on me).
What I need is to know how much second stage spring movement to expect. By now I've convinced myself that weight is being added.
Can you check your pistols and observe how much travel to expect from the second stage spring before it fires?
By simple observation it is very hard for me to notice any deviation in the leght of the second stage spring after it's been engaged.
I will try to find a trigger gauge and play with only the second stage to verify that weight is being added. If this is true then no need to expect any stretching and the whole post goes from being a problem and becomes a good practice for becoming a Morini technician.
Regards,
Luis
PS Merry Christmas!
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
What travel? I can see no movement of the second stage spring.Luis Medina wrote:Can you check your pistols and observe how much travel to expect from the second stage spring before it fires?
By simple observation it is very hard for me to notice any deviation in the leght of the second stage spring after it's been engaged.
My trigger is set up 410g+120g (or as near as I can tell with a Correx gauge).
Hello,
You may have answered all the questions and concerns of everyone who has written in about this post. Your question of movement on the second stage spring shows that you actually have been expecting some. The CM162EI when it arrives is set up so that when you reach the second stage and take up its weight it breaks and releases. There is no movement on the second spring as it does not have any creep.
It is very possible you were expecting to find some movement and tried to alter the weight of the 2nd stage pressure in hope of the travel, this can lead to problems as this gun needs a minimum 2nd stage pressure to work the trigger effectively.
I beleive that there is nothing wrong with the gun and maybe some playing has caused your issues. I firmly beleive that Francesco at Morini would not have sent a gun out that had not been tested.
If you have any problems with the gun in the future or can not get the factory settings then get in touch with either Francesco (morini@bluewin.ch) or Ruggero (ruggerobaglioni@tin.it) from the Morini factory and I am sure they will help immediately. These 2 guys provide an excellent service and backup for their guns.
You may have answered all the questions and concerns of everyone who has written in about this post. Your question of movement on the second stage spring shows that you actually have been expecting some. The CM162EI when it arrives is set up so that when you reach the second stage and take up its weight it breaks and releases. There is no movement on the second spring as it does not have any creep.
It is very possible you were expecting to find some movement and tried to alter the weight of the 2nd stage pressure in hope of the travel, this can lead to problems as this gun needs a minimum 2nd stage pressure to work the trigger effectively.
I beleive that there is nothing wrong with the gun and maybe some playing has caused your issues. I firmly beleive that Francesco at Morini would not have sent a gun out that had not been tested.
If you have any problems with the gun in the future or can not get the factory settings then get in touch with either Francesco (morini@bluewin.ch) or Ruggero (ruggerobaglioni@tin.it) from the Morini factory and I am sure they will help immediately. These 2 guys provide an excellent service and backup for their guns.
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Steve Swartz
Luis:
I echo Magyar's sentiments completely. Actually I'm a little concerned that the gun may have been "adjusted" in ways that are not intended for the operator to perform. My first and strongest advice is to return the gun to the licensed importer/repair shop for checkout and adjustment.
Note the feel of an electronic trigger is very different from a mechanical trigger, and it takes some getting used to. To recap some earlier comments, I think you may have misinterpreted the nature of hte operating characteristics of the fire control system:
1) There should be NO "movement" of the second stage assembly prior to shot release (very much unlike a mechanical system)
2) The second stage pressure should be felt "simultaneously" with release
3) If second stage set properly, you will get 2) at legal weight without release, then 1) with release upon addition of weight (but not necessarily travel
I know the above doesn't seem to make sense (actually, 1 is not "strictly true" as mentioned before; remember the "speed bump" as the switch is picked up with power off) but you shouldn't feel any movement at all between pickup of second stage weight and the release of the shot with additional pressure. You will get plenty of movement after release- but no additional increase in resistance. This feel will be very, very different from a mechanical system. A mechanical system will (by design) have a perceptible "felt movement" during release (I know, I know, there are many different ways of describing the differences in feel between electromechanical and mechanical triggers; and a lot of variation within each design). The travel distance required for electronic circuit action is very much smaller than teh smallest movement required for a mechanical system. Also, the mechanical system will have a perceptible change in pressure during release- which an electrical system might not have.
I now believe your unfamiliarity with the electronic trigger may have led you to misinterpret what was actually going on?
Also, again I agree with Magyar and say:
4) It is extremely unlikely that the gun would have shipped from the factory with the condition you originally described; I'm sorry but I can't even physically understand how such a condition could exist with the electro-mechanical design of the fire control system.
My urgent advice is for you to immediately send the gun to Scott Pilkington for service- it is likely that the gun may no longer be safe to operate.
Steve Swartz
I echo Magyar's sentiments completely. Actually I'm a little concerned that the gun may have been "adjusted" in ways that are not intended for the operator to perform. My first and strongest advice is to return the gun to the licensed importer/repair shop for checkout and adjustment.
Note the feel of an electronic trigger is very different from a mechanical trigger, and it takes some getting used to. To recap some earlier comments, I think you may have misinterpreted the nature of hte operating characteristics of the fire control system:
1) There should be NO "movement" of the second stage assembly prior to shot release (very much unlike a mechanical system)
2) The second stage pressure should be felt "simultaneously" with release
3) If second stage set properly, you will get 2) at legal weight without release, then 1) with release upon addition of weight (but not necessarily travel
I know the above doesn't seem to make sense (actually, 1 is not "strictly true" as mentioned before; remember the "speed bump" as the switch is picked up with power off) but you shouldn't feel any movement at all between pickup of second stage weight and the release of the shot with additional pressure. You will get plenty of movement after release- but no additional increase in resistance. This feel will be very, very different from a mechanical system. A mechanical system will (by design) have a perceptible "felt movement" during release (I know, I know, there are many different ways of describing the differences in feel between electromechanical and mechanical triggers; and a lot of variation within each design). The travel distance required for electronic circuit action is very much smaller than teh smallest movement required for a mechanical system. Also, the mechanical system will have a perceptible change in pressure during release- which an electrical system might not have.
I now believe your unfamiliarity with the electronic trigger may have led you to misinterpret what was actually going on?
Also, again I agree with Magyar and say:
4) It is extremely unlikely that the gun would have shipped from the factory with the condition you originally described; I'm sorry but I can't even physically understand how such a condition could exist with the electro-mechanical design of the fire control system.
My urgent advice is for you to immediately send the gun to Scott Pilkington for service- it is likely that the gun may no longer be safe to operate.
Steve Swartz