10 th Asian Championships Kuala Lumpur
Gold + Bronze
Air Pistol Men
Gold + Silver
Air Pistol Women
Silver
25m Pistol Women
ISSF World Cup Bangkok
Bronze
Air Pistol Men
Gold + Silver + Bronze
Free Pistol Men – (5/8)
ISSF World Cup Sydney
Silver + Bronze
Free Pistol Men – (5/8)
Silver
Air Pistol Men
Gold
Air Pistol Women
European Shooting Championships Györ
Silver
Air Pistol Men TEAM (2/3)
Silver
Air Pistol Women TEAM (2/3)
Bronze
Air Pistol Men
ISSF World Cup Athens
Gold
Air Pistol Women
Gold
25m Pistol Women
Gold + Bronze
Free Pistol Men – (6/8)
Bronze
Air Pistol Men
ISSF World Cup Milano
Gold + Silver + Bronze
Free Pistol Men – (5/8)
Olympic Games Athens 2004
Gold + Silver
Free Pistol Men – (3/8)
ISSF World Cup Bangkok
Silver + Bronze
Free Pistol Men – (7/8)
Total: 17 Gold - 19 Silver - 21 Bronze
Results 2004 with Morini Pistols
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And in the interests of fairness how many went to Steyr shooters for example ? In air I think I Steyr had the edge slightly whereas I don't know the details for the other events. I do think these kind of statistics can be missleading if not put into proper context. Not of course that I'm doubting morini's aren't great guns - I would probably shoot them myself if the grips were fully adjustable.
Rob.
Rob.
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Tycho
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
I don't want to start a huge controversy here, but I do want to say a word in defence of Morini. I and several other shooters in our club have had technical problems with our CM84 free pistols. In fact, in all fairness I should say that all these problems would fall into the classification of "poor quality control". But from problem discovery to complete and satisfactory resolution, support from the Morini factory has been nothing short of fantastic. In one case I reported to the factory by e-mail a crack in my breachblock. Within a few minutes I had a reply asking for my mailing address so a new one could be shipped to me. I shoot FP once a week and I literally didn't miss a night of shooting - the new part arrived, was installed and works perfectly. This same kind of service has been in evidence whenever any of our club members have had a problem. I wish I could say I get the same service from Steyr and Hammerli, but I simply can't say it because the service provided by those other two manufacturers isn't even in the same class as that provided by Morini.
And no, I'm not a great shooter. In fact, I'm not even a good shooter. So score has nothing to do with the excellent service provided by Morini.
And no, I'm not a great shooter. In fact, I'm not even a good shooter. So score has nothing to do with the excellent service provided by Morini.
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Steve Swartz
O.K., an anecdotal report (and we all know what those are worth):
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Morini shooters at the "I shoot a whole lot" level:
1) D'Oh! I should have brought a spare battery! (multiple occurences)
2) Condensation forming in trigger contact of CM84E, resulting in a lot of "ball and dummy" practice during a match (one occurence).
Background: I have been competing with Morinis actively since 2001; ex member and captain of USAF International Pistol Team; exposed to a fairly high number of "I shoot a whole lot" competitors shooting a variety of equipment.
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Steyr, Pardini AP shooters:
1) Creeping Sear/randomly changing trigger letoff pressure
2) Broken fire control mechanism (insert any number of specific broken pieces here)
3) loss of air pressure/damaged o-rings, etc. (insert any number of regulator problems here)
4) loose sights
5) etc.
6) etc.
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Toz owners:
1) C'mon, you don't really think I would even try to catalogue Toz problems here, would you? Maygbe I could start on Volume I today and finish up with Volume X sometime next week . . .
Again, this is only an anecdotal impression from one person's experience over 4 years of national level competition. Your Mileage May Vary. Everybody loves their own gun, and thinks everyone else made a bad choice. Also, during htis time period I heard of more Steyr/Pardini/Toz problems simply because there are more of them on the line! The only true comparison should be made on the basis of failures per X number of shots; categorized by type of failure (like trigger problems are probably somewhat important, compared to other stuff).
Anyhow, everybody take a deep breath here. We all know you made the best decision when you chose your gun, whatever it was. And everyone else obviously made a bad choice when they chose their gun.
Thanks Repich for posting the information- it would be nice to have some baseline to compare the numbers to though. My (again, anecdotal) impression is that the Morini line has slowly been creeping up on the other companies steadily over the last few years.
Gotta love that eeee-leck-tronical trigger!
Steve Swartz
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Morini shooters at the "I shoot a whole lot" level:
1) D'Oh! I should have brought a spare battery! (multiple occurences)
2) Condensation forming in trigger contact of CM84E, resulting in a lot of "ball and dummy" practice during a match (one occurence).
Background: I have been competing with Morinis actively since 2001; ex member and captain of USAF International Pistol Team; exposed to a fairly high number of "I shoot a whole lot" competitors shooting a variety of equipment.
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Steyr, Pardini AP shooters:
1) Creeping Sear/randomly changing trigger letoff pressure
2) Broken fire control mechanism (insert any number of specific broken pieces here)
3) loss of air pressure/damaged o-rings, etc. (insert any number of regulator problems here)
4) loose sights
5) etc.
6) etc.
Problems I have personally seen or heard of first hand from Toz owners:
1) C'mon, you don't really think I would even try to catalogue Toz problems here, would you? Maygbe I could start on Volume I today and finish up with Volume X sometime next week . . .
Again, this is only an anecdotal impression from one person's experience over 4 years of national level competition. Your Mileage May Vary. Everybody loves their own gun, and thinks everyone else made a bad choice. Also, during htis time period I heard of more Steyr/Pardini/Toz problems simply because there are more of them on the line! The only true comparison should be made on the basis of failures per X number of shots; categorized by type of failure (like trigger problems are probably somewhat important, compared to other stuff).
Anyhow, everybody take a deep breath here. We all know you made the best decision when you chose your gun, whatever it was. And everyone else obviously made a bad choice when they chose their gun.
Thanks Repich for posting the information- it would be nice to have some baseline to compare the numbers to though. My (again, anecdotal) impression is that the Morini line has slowly been creeping up on the other companies steadily over the last few years.
Gotta love that eeee-leck-tronical trigger!
Steve Swartz
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Repich Francesco
Here you see the breakdown by manufacturer from the Olympic Games in Athens
________MAP WAP MFP WSP
___Morini _19 _11 _18 __2
___Steyr _16 __15 ___ ___
____TOZ ___ ___ __21 ___
_Walther __7 __8 ___ __4
____FWB __2 __2 ___ __8
Hämmerli ___ __1 ___2 _9
__Pardini __1 __3 ___ __8
_____IZ ___ ___ ___ ___4
__Benelli __2 ___ ___ __1
Anschütz ___ __1 ___ ___
____FAS ___ ___ ___ __1
____MU ___ ___ ___1 ___
________MAP WAP MFP WSP
___Morini _19 _11 _18 __2
___Steyr _16 __15 ___ ___
____TOZ ___ ___ __21 ___
_Walther __7 __8 ___ __4
____FWB __2 __2 ___ __8
Hämmerli ___ __1 ___2 _9
__Pardini __1 __3 ___ __8
_____IZ ___ ___ ___ ___4
__Benelli __2 ___ ___ __1
Anschütz ___ __1 ___ ___
____FAS ___ ___ ___ __1
____MU ___ ___ ___1 ___
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Patrick Haynes
The Pistol Doesn't Win the Medal...
Our household has Steyr, Morini, Pardini and Walther competition guns in it's safe. Fortunately, we get to take them out regularly to shoot. To the best of my knowledge, they specifically have never shot a deep ten (nor any value for that matter) by themselves. We, the competitors, have always brought about the score, whether we liked the outcome or not.
All the guns are great. Every manufacturer mentioned above should be proud of their products. But, reality is, the gun never did and never will win a medal. An athlete won the medal, and if not with one top brand, then with another top brand.
Saying "x" brand won "n" medals does nothing but foster the belief that buying a certain gun will get you to the top faster. I'd be more interested in seeing nations tell me how their country trained to win that medal. THAT would mean something of value.
Patrick
(And on a personal note, my Morini 162EI is the best pistol in the world, and I defy anyone to disprove that. *s*)
All the guns are great. Every manufacturer mentioned above should be proud of their products. But, reality is, the gun never did and never will win a medal. An athlete won the medal, and if not with one top brand, then with another top brand.
Saying "x" brand won "n" medals does nothing but foster the belief that buying a certain gun will get you to the top faster. I'd be more interested in seeing nations tell me how their country trained to win that medal. THAT would mean something of value.
Patrick
(And on a personal note, my Morini 162EI is the best pistol in the world, and I defy anyone to disprove that. *s*)
I certainly agree with Patrick that knowing how countries or a individual trained would have much more value to an aspiring beginner than knowing what gun the medal winner shot. And certainly will also not dispute that the competitors are responsible for their score no matter what they are shooting. In some cases I will say this is true DESPITE what they are shooting.
But I have to say these gun charts are useful to the beginner shooter, or early buyer. They clearly show what the majority of the best shooters around the world are using. And winners choose their equipment because that equipment is a winner. It has everything they need to win and it stays that way, i.e., it is a RELIABLE piece of winning equipment.
These charts allow a new shooter look past sales propaganda that this is what the top end shooters are using, yet the most of the equipment being sold is either brand new to the market or used only by one or two top shooters who have heavy factory support. For the discerning person, who wants cut through all the sales hype, both true and untrue, charts such as this give confidence that claimed “top end gun” is a true top end gun used by top end shooters.
Here at Pilkington Competition, we have a statement, Quality has no regrets. That means I don’t sell stuff that is’nt a proven reliable piece of equipment. This can be at either end of the price spectrum. For instance, for the first 3 years I was in business, I would’nt sell IZH46’s because I did’nt think they were a quality piece. Mostly it was based on its looks and rough finish, which I assumed related to its internals as well. But that was’nt the case, and I began to see that the things were built solid and lasted well, and of course are as accurate as anything, so we picked them up in inventory and now have sold quite a few of them.
Steyr has been reliable solid performer and holding the high numbers in the AP gun counts since the late 80’s. That’s a 15 year dominance, many medals along the way as well. Morini’s 162E (and now EA) introduced in 1992, has been slowly gaining ground , as shooters got used to the concept of a reliable electronic trigger. Other attempts previous by other manufacturers had been less than stellar in the reliability corner so there was a good deal of suspicion among top shooters. But as the Morini system is now more than a decade old, and proving itself all along the way, more and more shooters are migrating to that perfect trigger. And now Morini and Steyr are the two top companies that are the CHOSEN top gun performers by the top human performers. And for the person starting out, wanting to buy one gun that can take them top, then Quality has no regrets, and they might as well buy the best. And that’s Steyr and Morini in the AP world.
And pretty much Morini in the FP world. Toz is certainly the other top contender, but not being in production for the many years, the factory support of Francesco at Morini, is a big plus to the top shooters. And of course, that great electronic trigger.
Now I am not going say that you can’t shoot winning scores with guns not used by the majority of shooters. Certainly you can, and there are two famous examples at the 96 and 2000 Olympics but for the majority of people, the majority of the time, what the majority of top performers are using, is what will give that beginner the best gun to start with. As I said before
Quality has no regrets
Scott
But I have to say these gun charts are useful to the beginner shooter, or early buyer. They clearly show what the majority of the best shooters around the world are using. And winners choose their equipment because that equipment is a winner. It has everything they need to win and it stays that way, i.e., it is a RELIABLE piece of winning equipment.
These charts allow a new shooter look past sales propaganda that this is what the top end shooters are using, yet the most of the equipment being sold is either brand new to the market or used only by one or two top shooters who have heavy factory support. For the discerning person, who wants cut through all the sales hype, both true and untrue, charts such as this give confidence that claimed “top end gun” is a true top end gun used by top end shooters.
Here at Pilkington Competition, we have a statement, Quality has no regrets. That means I don’t sell stuff that is’nt a proven reliable piece of equipment. This can be at either end of the price spectrum. For instance, for the first 3 years I was in business, I would’nt sell IZH46’s because I did’nt think they were a quality piece. Mostly it was based on its looks and rough finish, which I assumed related to its internals as well. But that was’nt the case, and I began to see that the things were built solid and lasted well, and of course are as accurate as anything, so we picked them up in inventory and now have sold quite a few of them.
Steyr has been reliable solid performer and holding the high numbers in the AP gun counts since the late 80’s. That’s a 15 year dominance, many medals along the way as well. Morini’s 162E (and now EA) introduced in 1992, has been slowly gaining ground , as shooters got used to the concept of a reliable electronic trigger. Other attempts previous by other manufacturers had been less than stellar in the reliability corner so there was a good deal of suspicion among top shooters. But as the Morini system is now more than a decade old, and proving itself all along the way, more and more shooters are migrating to that perfect trigger. And now Morini and Steyr are the two top companies that are the CHOSEN top gun performers by the top human performers. And for the person starting out, wanting to buy one gun that can take them top, then Quality has no regrets, and they might as well buy the best. And that’s Steyr and Morini in the AP world.
And pretty much Morini in the FP world. Toz is certainly the other top contender, but not being in production for the many years, the factory support of Francesco at Morini, is a big plus to the top shooters. And of course, that great electronic trigger.
Now I am not going say that you can’t shoot winning scores with guns not used by the majority of shooters. Certainly you can, and there are two famous examples at the 96 and 2000 Olympics but for the majority of people, the majority of the time, what the majority of top performers are using, is what will give that beginner the best gun to start with. As I said before
Quality has no regrets
Scott
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jscot111
short or regular
The results with the Morini,s are with the short or reg. version ?
Thanks, Scott Duthie
Thanks, Scott Duthie
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Mike McDaniel
I'll have to agree that the tables are useful - not so much to dope out what to buy, but what NOT to buy. AP is a tossup between Morini, Steyr, Walther as a distant third, and Other. FP is between Toz and Morini. The real catfight is in WSP - which would carry over into SP, and now into RF as well. No clear winner there, but again, look at what is NOT there.
The missing name
Something about gold and Pardini rings a recent bell or two also.