Revolvers?

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:25 am

Hi guys,

Just a quick question about revolvers. Is it possible to lighten the doble action trigger pull on a revolver, so that it is comparitable to that of a single action auto?

I like revolvers, but the only thing that stops me from buying one is the ugly trigger pull. I was specifically looking at the S&W 617 (otherwise known as the K-22), but I figure if the trigger pull can't be lightened all that much, why not just buy a trailside which is already set up for competition, and has a really nice trigger.

Cheers,
Verbal

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:58 am

The trigger pull can be smoothed up and lightened, but you'll never get it to be as light as a single action pull. This is simply a matter of physics. When pulling through a double action trigger, your trigger finger is being required to compress the gun's mainspring. You can go to a lighter mainspring, but if you go too light, you won't have enough force to reliably set off primers (or in rimfire, priming compound). In addition, with a revolver, your trigger finger is also being required to index the cylinder around. Since the cylinder has some mass, you have to overcome the inertia of the cylinder.

Won't help with the 617, but for those that shoot centerfire revolvers, I've noticed that Federal primer cups are noticeably softer and will allow you to go with a weaker mainspring for a better trigger pull.

As a side note, IIRC, quick draw competitors that shoot blanks often have custom cylinders made of aluminum for faster actions.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:50 am

You didn't mention what kind of competition you had in mind.
If you're talking about any kind of "bullseye" shooting other than Intl CF,
you'll find that double action will put you at a disadvantage. That's the humble opinion of a confirmed wheel gunner. I would no more stake my life on an "autoloader" than I would vote for Ted Kennedy. I have competed successfully for many years in various disciplines where two handed shooting is allowed, strictly double action. I do shoot an S&W revolver(shooting single action) in Intl CF, and I hope to add the new NRA Revolver Distinguished Badge to my list of future accomplishment. But I'm afraid that as the previous post stated, if you're shooting at round targets, stick to an semiauto.

Hold center,
Alex

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:37 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I think that I will take it, and only look at purchacing a second hand revolver as a bit of a 'muck around' gun. But I will probably see a nice colt gold cup sitting next to it, and wind up with that....lol.

Thanks again,
Verbal

Richard Newman · Post by **Richard Newman** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:18 pm

Another aspect of using a revolver in competition - especially bullseye- is that you have either 5 or 6 chambers, and they don't always shoot to the same point of impact. Many years ago I shot NRA centerfire slow fire with an S&W .357 Highway Patrolman (with low power handloads). S&W worked over the trigger action at Camp Perry, and it was unbelievably smooth and light in double action, and beautiful in single action. However, I did bench tests and found that two chambers centered differently than the other four. I numbered the chambers and used only two during a match. No problem in slow fire, but for timed and rapid it would have been a problem. If you compete with a revolver, I recommend testing your chambers and selecting accordingly.
Richard Newman

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:03 am

Actually it's interesting you mention that, as I was reading a review on an S&W 686, where the reviewer had used a tool to compare the alignment of the cylinders to the bore, and he has also found that a couple of the cylinders were off slightly...which to me seems like a quality control problem, but I suppose we can't all buy Korth revolvers.

Actually why is it that very few buy the Colt python these days? As that is a well made revolver isn't it?

GOVTMODEL · Post by **GOVTMODEL** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:10 am

The Python is available through the Colt Custom Shop only these days, with a price tag that is in the same neighborhood as Les Baer and Rock River pistols.

It's a lot of money for a center fire revolver, and you still need a .45 in an NRA 2700:-)

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:17 am

Those of us that were around in the mid 70s when the NRA first started the Police Distinguished program all looked at the Pythons because of the heavier barrels. The Python action just has too long a stroke in double action and too long a hammer drop in single action to be truely competitive for most. I say most because there were exceptions and even those that could "shorten" a Python action considerably through some slick shortening of internals.
Then, as today, most are better off with a "K" frame S&W. If you were of a mind to shoot a "K" frame in Intl CF a little searching would net you a S&W single action kit that improves the lock time.

Hold center,
Alex

F. Paul Denver · Post by **F. Paul Denver** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:56 pm

Alex,

You hit the nail right on the head re the hammer drop on the Python esp. when compared to a SW (in my case the SW model 14).

When I first purchased the Python, I couldnt quite put my finger on why I preferred the SW until I compared hammer drop time.

I found you really have to concentrate alot harder on follow thru with the Python.

If any of you know of a high quality pistol smith who has had success addressing this Python issue, I would really appreciate a referral.

Thanks

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:09 pm

F.Paul Denver,

I hesitate to mention these two gentlemen because of the ammount of years gone by(70's), but Reeves Jungkind of the Texas DPS at Waco, and Sam Ivey of the LA State Police used to perform wonders on Pythons. The work however was limited to double action. It was a matter of shortening the hand and then resurfacing the hammer and trigger so that the whole cycle was shorter. The big problem as I recall was that each revolver had to be hand fitted and tuned individually. It wasn't like you could drop in parts and do some minor fitting. Sam did one for me but I still preferred my Mdl 14 for Distinguished matches. I got rid of that Python and have always regretted it because of the smooth, silky action.

Hold center,
Alex

Troop · Post by **Troop** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:32 am

Sort of...still an apples and oranges thing. A revolvers DA trigger pull can be lightened considerably but reliability becomes an issue to lighter you go....course its always going to have a longer trigger pull.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:56 am

Sorry alex, I just noticed your statement that I didn't mention what type of competition I had in mind. I am primarily interested in UIT style slow fire matches, where the shooting is done offhand. However I kind of answered my own question today. I went to the range today, and shot the 617 10 shot. The trigger, well it's not bad at all, it's very managable in double action, just smooth and steady (but long), and in single action, well it's like a hair trigger, softer and shorter than a stock ruger (as expected). In fact the gun is probably more enjoyable to shoot than the ruger, as it's a better quality gun. However after only 50 rounds, or really as soon as I picked up the gun, I realised that this is not a firearm suitable for olympic style shooting, as it's just two damn heavy. However having said that, as a gun for action shooting events, it would be a alot of fun.

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