Standard Pistols used for Rapid Fire

[ToolBox]

Hi,
Firstly, I am new here so please excuse me if this topic has been covered.
I want to but a new standard (UIT, ISSF) pistol and with the demise of specialist rapid fire pistols and ammo I would like a standard that is capable of reasonable performance in Rapid Fire matches.

I have been told that the FWB AW93 is too slow in recovery and cycling and that I should get something like the Walther KSP200.
The KSP200 is no longer made and I haven't been able to find anyone that can supply the original Russian version (IZH35)

Has anyone any experience in this issue? Because of the handgun buyback in Australia the quality of remaining secondhad pistols is very poor so I am resigned to buying a new one. I enjoy rapid fire and would like to compete using a standard pistol. I guess this is something other new shooters will come across when they try all the disciplines.

I've been using the club guns but find I cannot improve because they are continuously adjusted, old etc.

I am looking at all the major brands available here, Pardini, Hammerli, Morini, FWB, Walther etc.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

[race1911]

I wound up with two useless Walther OSP's now that the ruling has changed (.22 short not used in any other discipline)......I fought with the idea of perhaps converting them to .22 long but in the end decided I needed to try to keep up with what is fairly new out there that is winning in the Standard Pistol lineup...........I wound up selling my 2 OSP's and finding a used Pardini SP in very good condition.................you may want to try and go with something used you can find for cheap (a little harder in Aussie land!!) because the rumour mill is that all the manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon with new models that will be suited for rapid fire such as Walther with the SSP, and I heard Pardini has one testing with electronic trigger etc.......these models should hit production some time later next year

[Guest]

Thanks,
That is the sort of info I'm after. I had "heard" somewhere that companies were going to release new models too but nothing definite.

Wish I had read my post more than twice, of course I meant I want to BUY a pistol not but :-)

Cheers

[Walter Young]

I have been told that the FWB AW93 is too slow in recovery and cycling and that I should get something like the Walther KSP200.

The only drawback to the Aw93 for rapid fire is that the first stage must have enough travel for it to operate safely.

[Claudio]

I have converted one of my Walther OSP's and it functions just fine. It's almost as smooth as the .22 short version but with a little more kick to it.
I like the OSP convertion and I am going to convert the other one as well.
I really don't think a new state of the art .22 pistol over this conversion is going to get me any more points than I aml getting now with the conversion. It will take awhile to get use to any standard pistol for Rapid fire.

I am still pissed off at the ISSF for doing something as stupid as changing the gun, when all was needed was a change in target or count the x's in it.

It might be ok at first and a few more people might shoot rapid fire for awhile but everyone is gong to chase after the lastest gun and specilized standard pistol for rapid fire and we will end up with a gun similar to what we had. That is what I told the ISSF too but they still went ahead, I just don't see their point, if they have one.

[Sandy]

Claudio,
I am glad that you like the OSP conversion. Did you have any problems? Email or send me a photo so that I can see how everything turned out.
Sandy

[Fred]

Claudio (and/or Sandy),

Could you please give a brief rundown of exactly what was needed to convert your OSP to ISSF-legal standard pistol? For example, my OSP has a ported barrel (not ISSF-legal for SP), so I would apparently need a new barrel, new bolt assembly, new trigger group, new grip and new magazines. All in all, the cost of these parts bought separately would be more than the cost of a new gun. So how did you do it, and what was the cost?

Thanks,
Fred

[Sandy]

Fred,
Since I have no idea what country you are in I cannot give you a cost. Check with your local Walther dealer.

The following is a parts list:
1. a new .22LR barrel
2. a .32 cal cocking bolt
3. a custom made cocking handle
4. .22LR magazines (make sure that they fit your frame)
5. a 1000 gram trigger
6. a recoil buffer that you can easily make from plastic tubing
7. new grips, or reshape the ones you have
8. move the front sight

It does not equal the price of a new gun. If you live in the US, Eddy Esworthy can make the conversion for you plus any other custom work that you may want. I do not know what he charges but he is an excellent pistolsmith and machinest.

[sparky]

For those envisioning new SP guns that are tailored for RF, given the specifications, what RF-specific changes do you think will occur?

What specific modifications do you think will make a SP more competitive in RF and still fall within the rules?

[Jimmy B.]

Hi,
Don Nygord has some interesting things posted at www.nygord-precision.com regarding new SP including the new Pardinis and a Schumann RF with electronic trigger converted to 22LR. (The one he shows is set up with red dot for NRA but that's easy to change.)
Concerning Claudio's comments re ISSF, it will be interesting to see what impact the new rules have, especially regarding the number of clubs willing to shell out $$$ for target turners. It would be nice if lots of people got involved due the new rules, clubs bought new equipment and sponsored matches, etc. But,...... we'll see. Hats off to those of you willing to convert pistols, adapt to the new rules and continue slugging it out.
PS: I wouldn't waste too much time on the IZH. I've seen too many with battered breach faces from slide impact (within a single case of ammo!) to imagine they'd stand up to serious RF use. Also, doubling seems to be a recurring problem (just in NRA matches). By the time you tweak the trigger, especially first stage travel, I think this problem wil be more severe. Just my opinion on what I've seen with several examples.

[nneely]

Jimmy B.,

Not sure when you last saw the IZH-35, but mine (circa 2000) hasn't shown any of the issues you mentioned. The same goes for the other 5 guys shooting at the local monday night NRA league. Apparently the earlier (1999 and before) models had some reliability problems, but those seem to be fixed.

As to whether the -35 would be appropriate for RF, I don't know since I've never shot it. The gun works and I'm not looking to trade it in anytime soon. My wife's Pardini has had more problems than my -35, it's finnicky on what ammo it's fed.

My $.02.

- Nick

[Dennis]

Just for info:
This years New York State Outdoor Championship in RF was won by Ken Snyder shooting a IZH-35M. It was the only 22LR in the field.
Congrads to Ken.

[ausdiver99]

I have a FAS 601 which is about to become redundant too. I don't shoot free pistol, but I will now! The FAS will be pressed into FP duty, loading a single shot. I'm buying up some different ammunition now, looking for "punchy" loads to manage the 50 metres without a rainbow trajectory - which contrasts the past emphasis on the lowest possible recoil. My friendly gunsmith will also have a fiddle, extending the sight radius and tapping the barrel ports so I can close them off with grub screws if necessary to help the ballistics. Actually I'm looking forward to this little project to see just what might be possible....

A person at Winchester said the ammunition manufacturers drove the rule change as they no longer wanted to tool up for miniscule production runs, their entire year's 22 short run could be done in half a day.

I'm going to sit back a while and see what falls out of the mess. I don't own a .22LR, nor am I interested in shooting standard pistol, so I think sitting out a year and seeing what happens is a wiser investment than $2000 on something which might be less than optimal...

Cheers...

Pete

[Mark Briggs]

I just received a reply to my question to Walther concerning the SSP pistol. In that reply I was told this pistol is still in prototype stage with production estimated to start in the autumn of 2005. Maybe sitting out for a year is the right thing to do. In the meanwhile I'm going to get an MG-2... ;-)