Hello, I am a 50m disabled para shooter.
Grunig R3 racer vs Walther kk500
Please recommend which one is good out of the two.
Grunig R3 racer vs Walther kk500
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: Grunig R3 racer vs Walther kk500
Part of this really depends on details, how long you have been shooting and your skill level.
Both are fine rifles. I have shot a KK500, I have held an R3, I currently shoot a KK300.
There are some details on the R3 that speak to the Swiss level of detail on things. The R3 is also 1/2 again more than a typical KK500 so G&E has to make sure you get something for your money. You certainly see examples of both showing up at World Cup Finals so there is no clear advantage to one or the other.
The KK500 is certainly the 'go to' rifle for many juniors and collegiates these days which makes them easier to find used. There is also good parts availability for Walther, better than the G&E. My only nit-pick with a KK500 would be that I personally think Walther gave up some smoothness in the bolt by making it user selectable for R or L operation. The range of offset adjustment for the butt plate adjustment may be limited but the KK500 stock has the links at the forward part of the buttstock so the entire assembly can be offset, if you desire, which would somewhat make up for that. As I noted, I have not shot, only held an R3, so I cannot comment on adjusting the rifle on the line. My suspicion there is the R3 may be a little more refined in that department.
A lot of this depends on your budget and what YOU want. As I noted, both these are fine rifles. I expect both these rifles will shoot better than you can. If you are more at the beginning of your shooting journey, I would suggest a KK500 and a case or two of practice grade ammo. If cost is no object and you really want an R3 because they are Swiss or more exclusive or whatever your reason, get yourself an R3 and then a case or two of practice grade ammo. Regardless, of your selection, get out to the range and put rounds of that practice grade ammo down the line. That will have a greater bearing on your success than whether you shoot a KK500 or an R3.
'dude
Both are fine rifles. I have shot a KK500, I have held an R3, I currently shoot a KK300.
There are some details on the R3 that speak to the Swiss level of detail on things. The R3 is also 1/2 again more than a typical KK500 so G&E has to make sure you get something for your money. You certainly see examples of both showing up at World Cup Finals so there is no clear advantage to one or the other.
The KK500 is certainly the 'go to' rifle for many juniors and collegiates these days which makes them easier to find used. There is also good parts availability for Walther, better than the G&E. My only nit-pick with a KK500 would be that I personally think Walther gave up some smoothness in the bolt by making it user selectable for R or L operation. The range of offset adjustment for the butt plate adjustment may be limited but the KK500 stock has the links at the forward part of the buttstock so the entire assembly can be offset, if you desire, which would somewhat make up for that. As I noted, I have not shot, only held an R3, so I cannot comment on adjusting the rifle on the line. My suspicion there is the R3 may be a little more refined in that department.
A lot of this depends on your budget and what YOU want. As I noted, both these are fine rifles. I expect both these rifles will shoot better than you can. If you are more at the beginning of your shooting journey, I would suggest a KK500 and a case or two of practice grade ammo. If cost is no object and you really want an R3 because they are Swiss or more exclusive or whatever your reason, get yourself an R3 and then a case or two of practice grade ammo. Regardless, of your selection, get out to the range and put rounds of that practice grade ammo down the line. That will have a greater bearing on your success than whether you shoot a KK500 or an R3.
'dude
Re: Grunig R3 racer vs Walther kk500
I have the XRS/R3 Grunig, I moved to it from a Feinwerkbau 2700 last year, I wanted a new rifle and one with a shorter bolt so the considerations were, Grunig, Walther, Bleiker and the new Feinwerkbau. After being advised, I was lucky enough to be able to try out the first three in person, albeit with them set up for their owners and only able to make a minimal amount of adjustment. I would suggest if you could that you try and do similar if possible.
Ultimately I chose the Grunig on how it felt but maybe wrongly for the sheer quality of the engineering apparent everywhere. The Bleiker was just not for me, the Walther was very good but lacked the sense of robustness, obviously it's plenty strong enough for anything it was just in my head. Now in hindsight I'm glad I bought the Grunig, it's a pleasure to own and use, yes it does requite a bit more maintenance than the Feinwerkbau (or Anschutz) but only a bit. The only big bit of maintenance is cleaning the loading tray once a year, if your not familiar, it's the tray that the round sits on to load the rifle and then gets pushed down out of the way of the round bolt as it's closed. Many people think it's horrendously complicated but it's just a tray on four springs, just watch those springs when you dismantle it. Everything on the rifle looks very complicated but it's not, it's as simple as can be, I think the engineering quality just makes it look like it might be.
Minus points: The bolt when new felt stiff, almost difficult to open somehow unless I pulled it from the very base of the handle, that disappeared after say 50 rounds and after 1000 it's as smooth as silk. The other thing is the ejector, when you open the bolt with a little speed it has an ejector lever that kicks up and fired the empty case out sideways, so much so it lands on the shooter to the right (brilliant ha ha!!), now I open the bolt very slowly and the case lifts before the lever has time to contact it so every 10th round or so the case just flips over and stays in the loading port. Maybe I need to work on the speed of that to fine tune it a little? It's not really an issue though because the loading port has a hinged left hand side that allows it to be pushed out as you load the next round. Possibly the worst thing is that everything for Grunigs is a lot of money because of the quality of the engineering but you do get what you pay for
One feature of the Grunig that is worth mentioning as being brilliant is the dry fire/safety function on the bolt, just push in the button on the bolt handle base and you can dry fire to your heart's contend with full rifle function only the firing pin is semi captive so there no chance of damaging it.
Of the modern crop of target rifles I don't think any are better or worse when it comes to putting holes in paper in the smallest groups. I think it's all down to fit and preference of the shooter/rifle partnership, do your best to give both a go and hopefully the choice will be an obvious one
Ultimately I chose the Grunig on how it felt but maybe wrongly for the sheer quality of the engineering apparent everywhere. The Bleiker was just not for me, the Walther was very good but lacked the sense of robustness, obviously it's plenty strong enough for anything it was just in my head. Now in hindsight I'm glad I bought the Grunig, it's a pleasure to own and use, yes it does requite a bit more maintenance than the Feinwerkbau (or Anschutz) but only a bit. The only big bit of maintenance is cleaning the loading tray once a year, if your not familiar, it's the tray that the round sits on to load the rifle and then gets pushed down out of the way of the round bolt as it's closed. Many people think it's horrendously complicated but it's just a tray on four springs, just watch those springs when you dismantle it. Everything on the rifle looks very complicated but it's not, it's as simple as can be, I think the engineering quality just makes it look like it might be.
Minus points: The bolt when new felt stiff, almost difficult to open somehow unless I pulled it from the very base of the handle, that disappeared after say 50 rounds and after 1000 it's as smooth as silk. The other thing is the ejector, when you open the bolt with a little speed it has an ejector lever that kicks up and fired the empty case out sideways, so much so it lands on the shooter to the right (brilliant ha ha!!), now I open the bolt very slowly and the case lifts before the lever has time to contact it so every 10th round or so the case just flips over and stays in the loading port. Maybe I need to work on the speed of that to fine tune it a little? It's not really an issue though because the loading port has a hinged left hand side that allows it to be pushed out as you load the next round. Possibly the worst thing is that everything for Grunigs is a lot of money because of the quality of the engineering but you do get what you pay for
One feature of the Grunig that is worth mentioning as being brilliant is the dry fire/safety function on the bolt, just push in the button on the bolt handle base and you can dry fire to your heart's contend with full rifle function only the firing pin is semi captive so there no chance of damaging it.
Of the modern crop of target rifles I don't think any are better or worse when it comes to putting holes in paper in the smallest groups. I think it's all down to fit and preference of the shooter/rifle partnership, do your best to give both a go and hopefully the choice will be an obvious one