This may be a bit off but here it goes:
I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
Rant over, flame away.
.49297.0
An NRA rant
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Jim
Re: An NRA rant
Hi Len,
I can certainly appreciate your feelings. As an adult shooter, I have for years shot conventional bullseye pistol. About a year ago, I got into international pistol, namely air, free, standard and CF. I have found bullseye to be basically an adult game, whereas international has a lot going on with juniors, especially in AP. The crowd is different in each. The bullseye guys wonder where the juniors are, while the international kids wonder where I came from! As an adult, I pay my own full match fees, ammo, equipment, etc. without any grants or assistance. Your young proteges will certainly have to adjust to that.
In defense of the NRA, I appreciate the little things like widespread competitive opportunities in a variety of disciplines, match award points, classification cards and match reports from directors. In my position, I feel as though my participation matters. Their competitive magazine, Shooting Sports, has really become excellent.
USAS may do great things for juniors, but as an adult, I think the only interest they have in me is my money.
Having seen many juniors lose interest in AP once they go off to college, (except for those getting scholarships, etc) I am truly sympathetic. Perhaps there is an opportunity to introduce your junior pistol shooters to bullseye pistol and/or your AR shooters to NRA smallbore or high power? I know the match directors and other competitors would be very supportive. My local outdoor bullseye club offers a tyro match where you can fire the whole 2700 with a 22 for $9.00. Check www.bullseyepistol.com for details on postal matches, as they are out there.
Jim
PS: I am shooting in a postal AP league. It's a new thing and I am not sure of the details. I'll see what I can find out.
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.49300.49297
I can certainly appreciate your feelings. As an adult shooter, I have for years shot conventional bullseye pistol. About a year ago, I got into international pistol, namely air, free, standard and CF. I have found bullseye to be basically an adult game, whereas international has a lot going on with juniors, especially in AP. The crowd is different in each. The bullseye guys wonder where the juniors are, while the international kids wonder where I came from! As an adult, I pay my own full match fees, ammo, equipment, etc. without any grants or assistance. Your young proteges will certainly have to adjust to that.
In defense of the NRA, I appreciate the little things like widespread competitive opportunities in a variety of disciplines, match award points, classification cards and match reports from directors. In my position, I feel as though my participation matters. Their competitive magazine, Shooting Sports, has really become excellent.
USAS may do great things for juniors, but as an adult, I think the only interest they have in me is my money.
Having seen many juniors lose interest in AP once they go off to college, (except for those getting scholarships, etc) I am truly sympathetic. Perhaps there is an opportunity to introduce your junior pistol shooters to bullseye pistol and/or your AR shooters to NRA smallbore or high power? I know the match directors and other competitors would be very supportive. My local outdoor bullseye club offers a tyro match where you can fire the whole 2700 with a 22 for $9.00. Check www.bullseyepistol.com for details on postal matches, as they are out there.
Jim
PS: I am shooting in a postal AP league. It's a new thing and I am not sure of the details. I'll see what I can find out.
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.49300.49297
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Marc Orvin
What do you want them to do?
Don Williams in either Washington or Oregon has for many years run postal matches for adults and juniors alike. I don't know his contact information, but I'm sure others here on the board would know.
Good luck to you.
.49302.49297
Good luck to you.
.49302.49297
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Marc Orvin
Never mind the subject line above.
I don't know where my mind was when I wrote the subject line above. It had nothing to do with what I intended to write. It doesn't even make sense. I guess it was just another senior moment. Excuse me while I go hide my own Easter eggs.
.49303.49302
.49303.49302
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pdeal
Re: An NRA rant
Len: As Marc says below there are other postals. Seems to me that the big problem with the postals is getting people to shoot them. Notice the High Noon turnout.
Personally I would like to see all matches be open to juniors and adults. As far as shoulder to shoulder matches in our area there are many open NRA smallbore matches. It seems most of the national programs and camps are geared to juniors only though.
From observing kids at this transition age it seems lots of them do give it up. I know i did. I quit shooting at age 18 and did not come back for 20 years but that was mostly due to changing interest. I now participate with my kids and I try to get other parents in our group involved that way too.
Also, it is not just the NRA. USAS, CMP, and NRA have lots of programs for juniors (which is good) but very little for adults.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49307.49297
Personally I would like to see all matches be open to juniors and adults. As far as shoulder to shoulder matches in our area there are many open NRA smallbore matches. It seems most of the national programs and camps are geared to juniors only though.
From observing kids at this transition age it seems lots of them do give it up. I know i did. I quit shooting at age 18 and did not come back for 20 years but that was mostly due to changing interest. I now participate with my kids and I try to get other parents in our group involved that way too.
Also, it is not just the NRA. USAS, CMP, and NRA have lots of programs for juniors (which is good) but very little for adults.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49307.49297
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Bob Wiard
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
Ya that's the hard part about being an adult; you have to travel to matches to see your buds, there are fewer awards, and skills development is less readily available and more costly.
Transitioning to adulthood is especially difficult if you haven't been trained on how the adult system works. The very idea that that you have to show up at matches to perform & your only reward for shooting may well be a classification increase, is a hard transition for some juniors. Perhaps preparing them for this reality shift might help with the retention of our young people.
.49311.49297
Transitioning to adulthood is especially difficult if you haven't been trained on how the adult system works. The very idea that that you have to show up at matches to perform & your only reward for shooting may well be a classification increase, is a hard transition for some juniors. Perhaps preparing them for this reality shift might help with the retention of our young people.
.49311.49297
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Len
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
Thanks all for the comments. I guess in my crazy little world my hope was that my "kids" would be able to continue to compete against each other no matter where they were or at what age they were, and regardless of their clubs afilliation and to me the natural vehicle for that would be an NRA postal match.
Since they "came up" NRA, it would only be natural be to continue on in the NRA competitions via postal matches. That way no matter where they were, they had the same governing body they came up on running the postal match and could compete against their "buds".
If any of you have sway with the NRA or even other organizations that run like programs, please do what you can to continue or make the transition easier. It's near impossible to find local clubs across the country (even within the databases of the NRA, USAS, CMP) because not one of them is complete. If there was even just ONE open postal match for each dicipline in the NRA, no matter where you were, what club you belonged to, what your clubs affiliation was...you would still be able to compete in an NRA match...it seems simple...but I guess it's too hard.
And yes the point is taken this may be a universal problem across most shooting organizations...so get to work!
As an side note: It's somewhat sad to see the NRA investing so much time, effort and money in male centric youth programs and totally ignoring females. They seem to see the value of the female vote at election time and cater to them as an adult with the "womens outlook" but don't sponsor ONE female centric youth shooting program. I mean if you don't foster the youth progrmas, where are these girls/women supposed to come from?
.49314.49311
Since they "came up" NRA, it would only be natural be to continue on in the NRA competitions via postal matches. That way no matter where they were, they had the same governing body they came up on running the postal match and could compete against their "buds".
If any of you have sway with the NRA or even other organizations that run like programs, please do what you can to continue or make the transition easier. It's near impossible to find local clubs across the country (even within the databases of the NRA, USAS, CMP) because not one of them is complete. If there was even just ONE open postal match for each dicipline in the NRA, no matter where you were, what club you belonged to, what your clubs affiliation was...you would still be able to compete in an NRA match...it seems simple...but I guess it's too hard.
And yes the point is taken this may be a universal problem across most shooting organizations...so get to work!
As an side note: It's somewhat sad to see the NRA investing so much time, effort and money in male centric youth programs and totally ignoring females. They seem to see the value of the female vote at election time and cater to them as an adult with the "womens outlook" but don't sponsor ONE female centric youth shooting program. I mean if you don't foster the youth progrmas, where are these girls/women supposed to come from?
.49314.49311
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pdeal
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
Len: I agree that it would be nice to see both USA shooting and the NRA sponsor a postal for the masses. With raising 4 kids as my primary responsibility at the moment it is tough to get time to shoot in matches myself.
Another side note, I read on the VA rifle site that the NRA has now opened up 3p air to adults. I think this is a very positive step. It could be very helpful in getting position shooting into areas where indoor ranges are long gone. I would like to see them change the clothing rules to be the same as the NRA 3p rules. If this were the case I think it would be easier to get some of the highpower shooters who are in for the winter involved.
I don't get your comment on the "male centric youth program". As far as I know all of the programs are open to both males and females. Are you suggesting some sort of female only clinics? The trouble with this is that in the same way that adults are left out in some programs then we would be leaving boys out.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49316.49314
Another side note, I read on the VA rifle site that the NRA has now opened up 3p air to adults. I think this is a very positive step. It could be very helpful in getting position shooting into areas where indoor ranges are long gone. I would like to see them change the clothing rules to be the same as the NRA 3p rules. If this were the case I think it would be easier to get some of the highpower shooters who are in for the winter involved.
I don't get your comment on the "male centric youth program". As far as I know all of the programs are open to both males and females. Are you suggesting some sort of female only clinics? The trouble with this is that in the same way that adults are left out in some programs then we would be leaving boys out.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49316.49314
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Don Williams
Re: An NRA rant
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
Hi, guys; The NRA has all sorts of qualification programs that are open to anyone. I went through several of them some years ago, and got my medals, patches, etc just like the juniors do. I did this because I did not have the chance to do so when I was younger. Just my 2cents worth.
Also, you can contact me through the link on my name above. I do run a twice yearly air gun postal league that is just winding down for the winter. It is pretty good and scores/skill levels range all the way from rank beginners shooting sporter type air guns to world level shooters with all the goodies. Let me know if you want the flyer for the summer series, or even next winter's program. I would need a mailing address though. I don't put any of this on line. Don't trust these stupid machines all that much.
One final note. If you don't think there is enough in events, etc going on in your area, start something. All it takes is one or two people to get programs going in an area. Think about it.
Later.
bawilli-at-attglobal.net.49317.49297
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
Hi, guys; The NRA has all sorts of qualification programs that are open to anyone. I went through several of them some years ago, and got my medals, patches, etc just like the juniors do. I did this because I did not have the chance to do so when I was younger. Just my 2cents worth.
Also, you can contact me through the link on my name above. I do run a twice yearly air gun postal league that is just winding down for the winter. It is pretty good and scores/skill levels range all the way from rank beginners shooting sporter type air guns to world level shooters with all the goodies. Let me know if you want the flyer for the summer series, or even next winter's program. I would need a mailing address though. I don't put any of this on line. Don't trust these stupid machines all that much.
One final note. If you don't think there is enough in events, etc going on in your area, start something. All it takes is one or two people to get programs going in an area. Think about it.
Later.
bawilli-at-attglobal.net.49317.49297
-
Mike Schroeder
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
As an side note: It's somewhat sad to see the NRA investing so much time, effort and money in male centric youth programs and totally ignoring females. They seem to see the value of the female vote at election time and cater to them as an adult with the "womens outlook" but don't sponsor ONE female centric youth shooting program. I mean if you don't foster the youth progrmas, where are these girls/women supposed to come from?
Hi
I can handle that part. 4-H starts most (according to what we're told) shooters in America at this point. We hold 9 week instructional classes, and then have an advanced club type thing here in Wichita KS. WE have more girls than boys right now. Campfire is coed and doesn't shoot that I know about. GSUSA (Girl Scouts) at the National level are pretty liberal, so shooting is more or less forbidden. The girl scouts at the lower levels are dependent on their leadership to provide the oppurtunity to shoot. In short if the GSUSA leader doesn't shoot, then the girls don't either.
The NRA isn't investing Money in Male dominated groups, the male dominated groups are asking for a structure to provide a shooting program on and the NRA is providing it.
Hope this explains things a little.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49318.49314
Hi
I can handle that part. 4-H starts most (according to what we're told) shooters in America at this point. We hold 9 week instructional classes, and then have an advanced club type thing here in Wichita KS. WE have more girls than boys right now. Campfire is coed and doesn't shoot that I know about. GSUSA (Girl Scouts) at the National level are pretty liberal, so shooting is more or less forbidden. The girl scouts at the lower levels are dependent on their leadership to provide the oppurtunity to shoot. In short if the GSUSA leader doesn't shoot, then the girls don't either.
The NRA isn't investing Money in Male dominated groups, the male dominated groups are asking for a structure to provide a shooting program on and the NRA is providing it.
Hope this explains things a little.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49318.49314
-
Mike Schroeder
Re: An NRA rant
: In defense of the NRA, I appreciate the little things like widespread competitive opportunities in a variety of disciplines, match award points, classification cards and match reports from directors. In my position, I feel as though my participation matters. Their competitive magazine, Shooting Sports, has really become excellent.
....Our junior shooters already have classification cards like adults, and I think that the class transfers when you become 18 or maybe 21. The Marksmanship Qualification awards are not only for juniors.
: USAS may do great things for juniors, but as an adult, I think the only interest they have in me is my money.
...You have to remember what the interest is for USAS. They are the Olympic shooting orgainzation for the US. They don't care anything about old coots who won't be shooting perfect because their back spasms and their Real JOBS keep them from practising 5 hours a day in Colorado Springs.
: Having seen many juniors lose interest in AP once they go off to college, (except for those getting scholarships, etc) I am truly sympathetic.
....I was forced to loose interest in everything except Friday night beer and studying in college. Don't hold that against them.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49319.49300
....Our junior shooters already have classification cards like adults, and I think that the class transfers when you become 18 or maybe 21. The Marksmanship Qualification awards are not only for juniors.
: USAS may do great things for juniors, but as an adult, I think the only interest they have in me is my money.
...You have to remember what the interest is for USAS. They are the Olympic shooting orgainzation for the US. They don't care anything about old coots who won't be shooting perfect because their back spasms and their Real JOBS keep them from practising 5 hours a day in Colorado Springs.
: Having seen many juniors lose interest in AP once they go off to college, (except for those getting scholarships, etc) I am truly sympathetic.
....I was forced to loose interest in everything except Friday night beer and studying in college. Don't hold that against them.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49319.49300
-
Len
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
If you look at the postal matches availible, a large majority are male centric.
Boy Scouts
That's an obvious one...
Royal Rangers
http://www.ag.org/Royal-Rangers/
Order of DeMolay
http://www.demolay.org/whatis/
Now in the dialogue that is going back and forth with the postal match people. We are asking to be allowed to conduct an NRA sacntioned open postal match in AR and AP and are being told that there is near zero interest in it. That seems to be the main problem.
The quote:
"In the past year, I have had no more than five inquires into either an air rifle or air pistol open postal match. Until interest in the shooting community can support such a program, we will not have one to offer."
Dian Coleman
Postal Program Coordinator
Postals@nrahq.org
.49320.49316
Boy Scouts
That's an obvious one...
Royal Rangers
http://www.ag.org/Royal-Rangers/
Order of DeMolay
http://www.demolay.org/whatis/
Now in the dialogue that is going back and forth with the postal match people. We are asking to be allowed to conduct an NRA sacntioned open postal match in AR and AP and are being told that there is near zero interest in it. That seems to be the main problem.
The quote:
"In the past year, I have had no more than five inquires into either an air rifle or air pistol open postal match. Until interest in the shooting community can support such a program, we will not have one to offer."
Dian Coleman
Postal Program Coordinator
Postals@nrahq.org
.49320.49316
-
Len
NRA qualifications
Yes there are many qualification programs, many of the kids have run through them...but to keep the spirit alive it would be nice if they had something past youth shooting or individual qualifications that you could do.
My problem is my kids are now coming up on the adult ages and all that NRA support structure is gone.
The NRA is "great" if you are a youth, a male, or have a club that you shoot at. It's SEVERLY lacking in it's ability to transition young shooters into adult shooters via most of it's programs. You either have to be a member of an NRA club, shoot in your house alone for qualification, or be a member of some organization and under 21, 18, or 15 as the case may be.
My point really is if you are going to support young shooters, put some effort into supporting them as adults and contiune the most basic and simple progrmas like postal matches for them.
There are very few OPEN postal matches in the NRA's list. Most are again centered on youth.
They think it's a lack of interest, I think it's a lack of programs. If there were more programs, there would be more interest in the various events in that if you have even the smallest competative spark, you would like to see how you do against others.
It would be SO simple for the NRA to sanction open enrolment postal matches.
.49321.49317
My problem is my kids are now coming up on the adult ages and all that NRA support structure is gone.
The NRA is "great" if you are a youth, a male, or have a club that you shoot at. It's SEVERLY lacking in it's ability to transition young shooters into adult shooters via most of it's programs. You either have to be a member of an NRA club, shoot in your house alone for qualification, or be a member of some organization and under 21, 18, or 15 as the case may be.
My point really is if you are going to support young shooters, put some effort into supporting them as adults and contiune the most basic and simple progrmas like postal matches for them.
There are very few OPEN postal matches in the NRA's list. Most are again centered on youth.
They think it's a lack of interest, I think it's a lack of programs. If there were more programs, there would be more interest in the various events in that if you have even the smallest competative spark, you would like to see how you do against others.
It would be SO simple for the NRA to sanction open enrolment postal matches.
.49321.49317
-
Bill Freyfogle
Re: An NRA rant
The next logical step would be high school and college shooting teams. For air pistol postal matches, Jon Powell runs a great one and announces it on this board every month or so.
I'm sorry the NRA can't be more involved in shooting development and competition but as we can see there is a full-scale culture war going on that has to be won first.
Bill
Freyf-at-yahoo.com.49322.49297
I'm sorry the NRA can't be more involved in shooting development and competition but as we can see there is a full-scale culture war going on that has to be won first.
Bill
Freyf-at-yahoo.com.49322.49297
-
Len
Re: An NRA rant
Again...if these kids don't go to college they are out.
One would think if the NRA could rally the basement shooters, the backyard shooters, the "from the kitchen into the living room shooters", the across the hall, into the master bedroom, and into the bathroom shooters...it would help in that fight.
My theory is, by sort of dropping these kids when they turn 18 they loose that commited voting base, and those skills garnered are lost as well.
I mean it's a classic situation...you join Boy Scouts, shoot, learn gun safety....you grow out of Boy Scouts and are left to sort of figure out where you are going to shoot next.
.49323.49322
One would think if the NRA could rally the basement shooters, the backyard shooters, the "from the kitchen into the living room shooters", the across the hall, into the master bedroom, and into the bathroom shooters...it would help in that fight.
My theory is, by sort of dropping these kids when they turn 18 they loose that commited voting base, and those skills garnered are lost as well.
I mean it's a classic situation...you join Boy Scouts, shoot, learn gun safety....you grow out of Boy Scouts and are left to sort of figure out where you are going to shoot next.
.49323.49322
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pdeal
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
Len: I don't know anythig about the Royal Rangers or the Order of Demolay. As I understand it the girlscouts won't have anything to do with firearms. So, to me it seems not so much that the NRA has left out girls but that the girls organizations have left out firearms.
In our case our jr. club was at one time a venture crew (boy scouts). Boy scout venturing is open to boys and girls but the kids have to be 14. We dropped our affiliation because most of our kids at the time were under 14 and several were girls. As far as we knew there were no Boy Scout programs for the younger kids that would include girls so we dropped our Boy Scout affiliation. Since then the local boy scout council has worked out a way we can do it. They have a learning for life program that includes girls in the 6-13 year old category. Then the older girls can join the venture crew. So now we are reaffiliating with them.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49325.49320
In our case our jr. club was at one time a venture crew (boy scouts). Boy scout venturing is open to boys and girls but the kids have to be 14. We dropped our affiliation because most of our kids at the time were under 14 and several were girls. As far as we knew there were no Boy Scout programs for the younger kids that would include girls so we dropped our Boy Scout affiliation. Since then the local boy scout council has worked out a way we can do it. They have a learning for life program that includes girls in the 6-13 year old category. Then the older girls can join the venture crew. So now we are reaffiliating with them.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.49325.49320
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Len
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
Both of the others are men only clubs...but more importantly, I'm offering for our club to help pay, defray, administer, organize, sponsor an NRA sanctioned NRA postal match open to all shooters...and being told no because there is no interest.
But again the main issue is the NRA offers NO adult postal matches in any number of diciplines.
.49326.49325
But again the main issue is the NRA offers NO adult postal matches in any number of diciplines.
.49326.49325
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Mike Schroeder
Re: An NRA rant
: I mean it's a classic situation...you join Boy Scouts, shoot, learn gun safety....you grow out of Boy Scouts and are left to sort of figure out where you are going to shoot next.
Hi
I disagree. The Bullet Stop in Wichita has three bullseye leagues, one is .22 only. The NRA has irregular (more or less Monthly in the summer) 3-Position Smallbore matches at Air Capitol Gun Club. You don't have to be a member of Air Cap. Central KS has monthly Highpower, smallbore, Silhouette, Skeet, Trap, and Bullseye matches. These are examples. Yes we could build more.
Our problem here in Wichita with Air Rifle and Air Pistol is the lack of a place to shoot REGULARLY. We get the auditorium for 9 weeks straight twice a year, but we also get re-scheduled if someone who has to pay asks for our date. We use the 4-H building.
The Boy Scouts south of town have a trap range that is open to anyone from about 5:00 P.M. Friday night until everyone quit.
It's out there, but you have to find it. It probably won't be international either, BUT if you provide a match director and at least 7 shooters, most gun clubs will welcome you in any discipline.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49327.49323
Hi
I disagree. The Bullet Stop in Wichita has three bullseye leagues, one is .22 only. The NRA has irregular (more or less Monthly in the summer) 3-Position Smallbore matches at Air Capitol Gun Club. You don't have to be a member of Air Cap. Central KS has monthly Highpower, smallbore, Silhouette, Skeet, Trap, and Bullseye matches. These are examples. Yes we could build more.
Our problem here in Wichita with Air Rifle and Air Pistol is the lack of a place to shoot REGULARLY. We get the auditorium for 9 weeks straight twice a year, but we also get re-scheduled if someone who has to pay asks for our date. We use the 4-H building.
The Boy Scouts south of town have a trap range that is open to anyone from about 5:00 P.M. Friday night until everyone quit.
It's out there, but you have to find it. It probably won't be international either, BUT if you provide a match director and at least 7 shooters, most gun clubs will welcome you in any discipline.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49327.49323
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Mike Schroeder
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
: But again the main issue is the NRA offers NO adult postal matches in any number of diciplines.
Hi
Not REALLY being a smart ass, but after you get your first bill, getting the mail is kind of a bad thing. Postal matches DO involve the mail. Shoulder to shoulder seems to be more fun.... I couldn't get the kids interested in Postal matches, but they like it if they beat their leaders.
Mike
Crew 510 Advisor
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49328.49326
Hi
Not REALLY being a smart ass, but after you get your first bill, getting the mail is kind of a bad thing. Postal matches DO involve the mail. Shoulder to shoulder seems to be more fun.... I couldn't get the kids interested in Postal matches, but they like it if they beat their leaders.
Mike
Crew 510 Advisor
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49328.49326
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Justanothershooter
quitcherbichin
and do something about it!
Time and time again this comes up, and time and time again solutions are suggested but never followed up. No offense Len, but gee wiz, whats stopping YOU from starting a Postal program and getting it sanctioned by the NRA? Design it so that it addresses what you percieve as failings in the current postal program. Don't tell us that it can't be done because Jon Powell seems to have no problem sanctioning his pistol postal. If you need to contact someone about this topic, call the competitions division at the NRA and find out what is involved.
You state you want to support your shooters right? Just follow up, simple as that.
Good luck, and have a nice day.
.49330.49297
Time and time again this comes up, and time and time again solutions are suggested but never followed up. No offense Len, but gee wiz, whats stopping YOU from starting a Postal program and getting it sanctioned by the NRA? Design it so that it addresses what you percieve as failings in the current postal program. Don't tell us that it can't be done because Jon Powell seems to have no problem sanctioning his pistol postal. If you need to contact someone about this topic, call the competitions division at the NRA and find out what is involved.
You state you want to support your shooters right? Just follow up, simple as that.
Good luck, and have a nice day.
.49330.49297