Jacket vs no jacket and expectations

[kdarwood]

Hoping some 10 meter rifle shooters can give me some feedback on their experience as a beginner. I’m a soon to be 50 year old man who shoots AP casually in my basement. I have never competed, but Enjoy shooting when my problematic elbow cooperates. I shoot 50-100 pellets a week and dry fire a little bit as well. I average around 525, so not great, but I have always reasoned that I could do better if I could practice more. Because of my elbow issues I have decided to try air rifle……….a few different times. I have owned and sold a few very nice rifles because my frustration with the difficulty of this discipline discourages me. All my shooting is standing at 10 meters and I am lucky to keep 10 straight shots in the scoring rings. Long story short, here are my questions:

What was your experience like as a beginner?

How long did it take you to get to certain scoring plateaus (400, 500, etc.)

Does a shooting jacket make a night and day difference? How many points do you think it will improve an average shooter?

When buying a jacket do you buy the same size as you would wear in a suit jacket? It’s a long drive for me to go somewhere they sell these, so not simple to just go try them on.

Thanks in advance for any replies. I really want to love shooting rifle, but damn it’s a difficult sport!

[Richard144]

I cannot speak to issues as a beginner as I have been shooting all my life and am 78. Do not be discouraged with your shooting. I have shot lots of things and find that 10 meter air rifle is the most difficult to get good scores in. Some other shooting is more physical but not as difficult to score well. No matter what my score is I do enjoy shooting and always have fun.
Any shooting aids you use can and usually will help you. A shooting coat will help you as will a good shooting glove. I shot for years without a rifle rest and I was given one by a friend and that also seems to help. Even if your accessories don't improve your score they do make it more enjoyable to shoot( spotting scope and stand is a good example).

Shooting is kind of like other hobbies in that you can go as far down the rabbit hole as you want. I've seen people shoot with very cheap and limited equipment and others with all the latest and greatest(and expensive) stuff. I am somewhere in the middle but everyone seems to have a good time.
Rick b.

[alpineboard]

Hi KD, I can give a short quick answer now, and a detailed answer in time. I started smallbore position when I was 12 in a Junior Program. At 14 started standing. As a group of young kids who all knew each other, and all started standing at the same time, we all had problems with standing, everyone does, so as a group of 10 kids, we lost 2, never to return or be seen again. The remaining 8 remained, we all hung in there, and no matter how hard it was , still showed up and shot. But , we all saw that the Senior League shooters could shoot standing , by the scores posted on the rifle league season wall chart, and other older Jr rifle shooters , shooting standing. WE all knew and were told, hang in there , keep shooting, it will happen. And it does happen. We shot Friday nights, and if lucky , got a 2nd time in the week. 1 to 2 months , we started getting better. At first, if you can hit the black 50% to 70%of the time, ok, this will improve as you train. You will get to 9 shots hitting black, and always have that 1 in the white, for a long time, his is a mind game. Once you get all 10 in black, now you work on your score, try for no 7's, then try for no 8's.
Now with air rifle , you can train 7 days a week, 5 may be better. So you will see progress more rapidly. Work on your position, for comfort.
I got into air rifle after much smallbore, league, 1200 sectionals,outdoor, etc. I got the FWB 601 in 1988, and after shooting smallbore standing 95 plus, starting with air rifle was like learning standing all over again. It is the pellet speed is 1/2 that of smallbore, you need to remain motionalless, before during after, that much longer with air rifle. It is hard, but the trick is to relax. breath correctly, trigger squeeze and follow thru, keep your eyes open for the entire shot, some times you can watch the pellet go down range and hit the target, this is the fun part of air rifle.
Yes, a shooting coat is needed, night and day difference. I just recently bought the Anschutz jacket, very pleased, can give more info, creedmoore. I also coached Jrs for 8 years, more info about that, and standing. Also can advise on standing tips/tricks, methods. Yes, Air rifle is tricky, but once you get it, it is worth the effort.

[B.p.M]

First things first, what are you doing? Are you trying to shoot 60 shots on the 10m airgun target? What rifle are you shooting?

Trying to get through 60 shots without the right gear sounds frustrating and uncomfortable. Equipment does make a difference in the sport (that's why all the people you see in the olympics have very expensive shooting coats, pants and boots) but it seems like you are enjoying it on your own. A proper competition jacket (not those things you can get on e-bay from the 1960s) will make a difference in comfort and steadiness. In the US they are sold by suit size, but they typically have a chart that you can measure areas and see if a pre-made jacket will fit. Most of the off the shelf jackets need some kind of work in my experience. I'm 5'9" and hat to take 3" off the sleeve and 2" off the bottom of my premade coat.

If I didn't compete in 10m style international shooting or other formalized events, I would not own a shooting coat or really most of the gear I have. That being said, I also would not be trying to shoot 60 shots OH on the 10m target. I'd get involved with some of the field target stuff, that looks amazingly fun without all the gear.

It's the competition that provides an opportunity for getting out with my friends and going to matches and then the after match lunch or dinner.

Where are you located?

[kdarwood]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I live in Ohio, on the WV border. I don’t currently have a 10 meter rifle, but have owned Walther, FWB, and Anschutz ssp and pcp rifles in the past. I never noticed a difference in my shooting ability between any of the rifles and didn’t expect to. I can afford anything up to about $2500, so equipment isn’t an issue, but trying to keep the diopter sight picture from bouncing all over the black is definitely a problem. I see the animated representation of good shooters bringing the sights downward onto the bull and I’m amazed how steady they are. I look like a drunken sailor in comparison. If I shoot 10 shots on one bull I am doing good to break 60. I don’t think I have ever shot 60 consecutive shots. I get frustrated and take a break before I get past 30. Air pistol was difficult at first too, but I could see continual progress, so I stayed interested. With rifle I’m not sure I can hold it steady enough to become good. I don’t have any ailments that would prevent improvement and I’m in good shape. Maybe I just lack patience and determination. That is why I asked about the jacket. I was wondering if that would make a big difference. Fatigue isn’t an issue for 30 shots, so maybe not.

[B.p.M]

I would encourage you to go to the CMP website and look for a club in your local area. There are a few in south east Ohio and they have groups that shoot air guns. Just go to one of the clubs on a night that they are shooting, introduce yourself and let them know you are interested in shooting airgun. I'm sure they will get you pointed in the right direction.

You have one of the most amazing air gun ranges in the country at Camp Perry. It's way easier to learn when you are involved with a club of some sort.

[bandur60]

If you have a friend/ cohort/spouse that understands enough to know what you're trying to accomplish, I might suggest the "ball and dummy" (I think it's called) drill. You take the shot, they are standing beside you, on the right for a right-handed shooter, you open the action and hand the rifle to them. They, out of your sight, may or may not load a pellet and close the action. Here's where some may balk at handling a loaded rifle between two people, but otherwise safe handling between two trusted people can be done. Hand the rifle back to the shooter and shooter follows their normal shot process not knowing whether or not it will produce a hole in the target. If it doesn't you've either missed the paper altogether (??!!) or just executed a good dry fire training shot. Follow through on every shot and call the shot before looking.

Flame suit on .....

(You used a Crosman pistol before I got it from you a year or two ago.)

[Richard144]

One of the posts mentions Field Target. i have shot both. A friend says that 10 meter is like high mass. Well then Field Target is more like going out and shooting with your friends but good gear helps you to shoot better there too. You might like FT better. What's Field target? Check out USfieldtarget.com. There are some good vids. Regardless what you do you do need some gear. Enjoy.

[GaryN]

I kinda started air rifle like you.
I am primarily an AP shooter, and shoot AR as a break from AP.

In the beginning, I STUNK. Not only did I have trouble holding the 1-ring, but some shots did not even hit the target :-(
Out of FRUSTRATION, I got the help of a local AR coach.
He completely rebuilt my stance, and with a few lessons I was easily holding the target, then the 1-ring :-) That was a major accomplishment.
Then with more practice my groups got tighter and tighter.
Happiness was holding the black.

I think same with you, I would first work on your stance.
Like a house, a good foundation makes for a steady house.

I think when I got down to being able to hold the 7 ring, I eased back. Holding the 7-ring was "good enough" for me. I did not want to sacrifice my AP scores to get the AR scores higher.

I think I shot about 60-100 pellets a day, each day of a 6 day week. I was buying a lot of pellets from Pilkington.
I also tried shooting at different times of the day, to find when I shot best. I am NOT a morning person, but that was when I shot my best scores.
As opposed to "pushing through" a bad day, I would stop shooting. I did not want to reinforce whatever bad behavior I was having. And mentally, if I was having a bad day, I was just getting frustrated at my scores, so it really did me no good to shoot.
If I was having a GOOD day, I would keep shooting until I got tired or my shooting started to deteriorate. End on a GOOD note, not a bad one.

Without a coach, I would get the book "Air Rifle Shooting."
If I had that book or the earlier "Ways of the Rifle," I feel that I would have had a better start, and not have been so frustrated.

The only piece of dedicated shooting garment that I have is a shooting glove. This pads my fist so that the weight of the rifle on my fist does not hurt. Learned that the hard way, with a sore knuckle for a week.
I use a pair of flat soled shoes, that I do not use for other than shooting. I normally wear the corner of my heel, and for shooting, that worn corner of the heel makes it harder for me to keep steady. I tend to rock into the worn corner of the heel. Same for AP.

A rifle shooting jacket would be nice, but at my age, my waistline has changed a few times :-( and that would require a new jacket each time $$$.
For me, AR shooting was just to get a break from AP shooting. So I was not willing to put the $$$$ into the full rifle outfit, just the bare minimum.
However, I do have a bad lower back, so I use a back support belt. That is not competition legal, but fine for my casual use at home.

I do not have an electronic target. I use a spotting scope, so that I do not have to pull the target back to see what I shot.
The trick was to find a scope that would focus down to 10 meters.

I don't have a rifle rest, but I can see how much easier it would make shooting.
I lay my AR on a make-shift table.

I also wear ear PLUGS.
I use ear muffs for AP, but the ear shell gets in the way of the AR stock.

Gud Luk

[kdarwood]

I am familiar with “ball and dummy” from shooting 9mm pistols at the range. I am also very familiar with field target, although I have never shot in a match. I’ve owned many of the high end airguns used for 10 meter and field target, but I buy them just because I appreciate high quality guns that are extremely accurate. I have a lot to learn about technique, even though I study it and try to imitate the positions. I don’t shoot a ton of 10 meter air pistol, but I can occasionally shoot 93-94 for 10 shots. 10 meter rifle just seems like an entirely different beast to me. Holding steady is a task I haven’t begun to master.

[Griff557]

I got into AR a couple years ago as a cheaper way to practice offhand for small bore and service rifle. 10m AR is a tough game the nice thing is you can shoot in your garage or basement. I started with a Diana 75 and recently replaced It with a FWB 601 Both rifles were Olympic class-state of the art in their day and still out shoot me. I stuck to the single strokes because I just wanted to shoot whenever I wanted and not mess with Co2 or compressors. I try to shoot two-three 40 round matches a week I average mid-upper 70’s some days it’s fun others it’s very frustrating. I have a canvas Creedmor jacket I picked up for CMP Matches it offers more recoil reduction than real support. If I was more serious about 10m AR I would look for a “hardback” style jacket

[loadcc]

relationship between shooting jack and points is not sure,when get 7 point, jack can make it 8. but when get 9 point ,maybe only 9.5 or less .
the most important thing is protect lumbar vertebra，avoid hurting.
i hope keeping enjoy this sport until my 70s 80s