Palm shelf width

[seamaster]

My weekend project is to make a wider and longer palm shelf for my LP10.

Hopefully a slightly wider palm shelf will give me a better three point lever anchor at bottom of my palm to loosen up my grip.

Is there any ISSF stipulation on the width of palm shelf?

[David M]

Still need to fit the box.
Air Pistol 420 x 200 x 50
So max thickness is 50mm.

[seamaster]

Got it. Max width total 50mm.

http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aid=3022082

Looks like Jin’s palm shelf is also very thick and angled at wrist.

[greentangerine]

The dimensions are explained in the rule/diagrams under 8.13 in the ISSF rulebook (2017).

[Ricardo]

The 5 cm measurement on the diagram is not specifically the width of the palm shelf; rather, it's the width of the entire grip. It may be possible to shave off some wood from the top of the left side (for a RH shooter), which looks a little cantilevered outwards. That would allow for a wider shelf, it seems.

[rmca]

Comply with the drawing from the rule book

grip.JPG (32.66 KiB) Viewed 2032 times

Hop this helps

[Ricardo]

When it comes to a longer palm shelf there are dozens of posts about how far back towards the arm is legal. There seems to be some agreement that the wrinkle line at the base of the hand is the standard, but that seems to me to vary among people in relation to the joint itself. I've been studying photos of shooters at ISSF events and I'm pretty sure that many have grips that extend to the styloid process of the ulna -the bumpy thing on the outside of the wrist area, where we wear wristwatches. This is like beating a dead horse, I know, but I think it's a zombie horse.

[David M]

The grip should give no support to the wrist.
So the pub test is to fit the pistol in your hand and in shooting position can you move/tilt the pistol both up and down at the wrist.
It still has to fit the box.

[Ricardo]

If I'm not mistaken the rule doesn't mention support, though, and the word "wrist" is not technically accurate enough. That's why, I think, there's been many posts on that issue here. It just occurred to me, also, that a shooter choosing the maximum rake angle on the grip wouldn't be able to move the hand down regardless of the reach of the palm shelf. In my mind the rule is just not clear. What is the wrist, really?

[deadeyedick]

What is the wrist, really?

The point where flexion/extension and other directional movements occur between the hand and forearm.

[Ricardo]

I agree, but that's a functional description which applies more to a region than a line. There's a biggish gap between the carpal and the ulna, and if we define the tip of the ulna as the boundary of the wrist that falls further up the arm than a boundary defined by the edge of the carpal. I have found some images, but don't know how to stick them here (I've tried). See the attachment.

[deadeyedick]

It’s a grey area for sure....seems as if it is up to the discretion of individual RO’s unless a complaint is made.
David Levine might jump in.

[David Levene]

It’s a grey area for sure....seems as if it is up to the discretion of individual RO’s unless a complaint is made.
David Levine might jump in.

The interpretation of this rule usually comes down to "spirit and intent".

Here in the UK it is not unusual to ask the athlete to hold the gun normally and then pivot the wrist. If the hand shelf is touching beyond the area of the hand that is moving then the grip is suspect.

At all of the larger competitions here we have Jury Members, usually ISSF qualified, and they will make the decision.

If an athlete wants to push the rules so far that they risk the upset of an argument with the Jury then more fool them.

One thing I learnt many years ago was not to try to make decisions on grips based on photographs; they often lie.

[Ricardo]

Interesting about not relying on photos. I suspect photos are what starts this topic again every once in a while; certainly the case for me.