Smith & Wesson for ISSF Centrefire match

[Alexander]

BobGee was comparing .38 to .22, so was absolutely correct.

Ach? Well, this thread discussion is about .32 vs. 38 in the context of ISSF Centrefire (only), so my statement is not only relatively correct, but absolutely in place. ;-)

[David M]

Here is the old C/Fire record set by Col. Thomas D. Smith III at the Pan American Games in 1963 with a score a 597 out of a possible 600, besting the world record of 591 held at the time by a Russian.

[swilso]

Here is the old C/Fire record set by Col. Thomas D. Smith III at the Pan American Games in 1963 with a score a 597 out of a possible 600, besting the world record of 591 held at the time by a Russian.

Wow, Insane score - it look's as though it would have been a .45ACP calibre too

[David M]

No, it was .38 Special Mid range 148g wadcutter....

Here is the current World Record of 595-28x, not sure what firearm he used.
Someone on TargetTalk may have been there...

[Alexander]

Here is the current World Record of 595-28x, not sure what firearm he used.
Someone on TargetTalk may have been there...

I was not in Maribor, but Reitz uses and also at that time used Pardinis. So it was an HP pistol in .32 S%W long.

[Alexander]

No, it was .38 Special Mid range 148g wadcutter....

Here is the gun, in the NRA museum:
http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galle ... istol.aspx

[Sa-tevo]

No, it was .38 Special Mid range 148g wadcutter....

Here is the gun, in the NRA museum:
http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galle ... istol.aspx

Some T.D Smith info (Smith had survived a bad aircraft crash):

"I also am amazed by a little bit of training he gave me when he told me how he teaches his shooting students. He said the second most people look through the sites at a target, their brain is already creating an excuse for why they will miss the bulls eye. I see this in my running and just about every other thing I work at and find he is right.

T.D. survived because he didn't engage the part of his brain that provides excuses ahead of time for failure."

www.woodwardnews.net/news/surviving-by- ... 8946d.html

Another good link with a short video:
oklahoman.com/article/3859872/oklahoma- ... ican-games

Smith recovered from his crash injuries and continued as a fighter pilot. Here is a citation from being on a two-way range:

"The President of the United States takes great pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Lieutenant Colonel Thomas D. Smith, III for extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight as F-4E Aircraft Commander and Flight Commander, 34th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Korat Royal Thai Air Base, Thailand, on 23 January 1970. Colonel Smith's exemplary knowledge and outstanding airmanship, displayed under extremely hazardous conditions of mountainous terrain, low ceilings, and enemy 37 millimeter artillery fire, culminated in a highly successful attack on ground positions. Despite the handicaps, Colonel Smith silenced or destroyed four 37 millimeter gun emplacements. The outstanding heroism and selfless devotion to duty displayed by Colonel Smith reflect credit upon himself and the United States Air Force."
www.liberty1st.org/honorroll/citation_d ... sp?ID=5409

[BobGee]

What a remarkable man!

[Leon]

No, it was .38 Special Mid range 148g wadcutter....

Here is the current World Record of 595-28x, not sure what firearm he used.
Someone on TargetTalk may have been there...
Cf_World record.jpg

No it wasn't a .38 Special mid range 148g wadcutter.

He used a .38 AMU - which is (from the 1911 Forum ) "The .38 AMU is just like a .38 Special flush wadcutter EXCEPT that the case rim is cut down to a semirim the same diameter as a .38 Super. That way they could build target guns without having to open up the breechface of a Super slide like Clark did. Probably easier to make magazines work, too."

[David M]

Sorry, but it was .38 Special.
Here is the article from the man himself.

Oklahoma City man set world record and won gold in 1963 Pan American Games
by Ed Godfrey • Published: July 7, 2013 • Modified: April 23 , 2015

Fifty years ago, Thomas D. Smith III of Oklahoma City made history with a pistol.
At the 1963 Pan American Games in Brazil, then-Air Force Capt. Smith set a world shooting record that still stands.

Retired Air Force Col. Thomas D. Smith III poses for a photo at H&H Shooting Sports Complex in Oklahoma City, Friday June 28, 2013. Col. Smith set a pistol shooting record in the Pan American Games in 1963 that still stands today. In all, he set 79 shooting records in his career and this summer marks the 50th anniversary of the Pan Am record. In 1966, he was awarded the Airman's Medal for extraordinary heroism when he survived a 5,000-feet freefall from a plane into the snow then cared for the wounded in the plane wreckage for two days until they were found. Photo By Steve Gooch, The Oklahoman
Competing for the United States in the two-day pistol match, Smith was shooting on a course at targets the size of silver dollars and the second day at moving targets from a distance of 25 meters.
He won the gold medal with a score a 597 out of a possible 600, besting the world record of 591 held at the time by a Russian.
It was the first world shooting record set by a member of the United States Air Force and the first centerfire pistol world record set by an American.
The Soviet press did their best at the time to try and discredit the record.
“For three days, I had Soviet correspondents following me around all day long trying to make me admit I was a professional shooter,” Smith said.
Smith wasn't supposed to win. The four members of the United States Pan American pistol team in 1963 included 1960 Olympic shooting gold medalist William McMillan, a United States Marine.
“Nobody knew who the hell I was,” Smith said.
Smith, a native of Texas, was good with a gun even before he joined the Air Force.
“I came from a family of shooters,” Smith said. “I was raised in that ranch country of West Texas. Sunday we would go to church and come home and the women would be frying chicken and we would be out behind the barn shooting.”
Smith became a competitive pistol shooter only because the Air Force wanted it. One day Smith's commander decided that all crew members were going to have to qualify with a handgun.
He set the range and division record, and the Pentagon noticed the scores. The Air Force brass was so impressed that Smith was ordered to start shooting in pistol matches.
Smith shot in his first match in 1961 and later became captain of the Air Force Pistol Team.
Over the next four-and-a-half years, Smith won 36 individual state, regional, national and international pistol championships, breaking 79 National Rifle Association and world shooting records.
He was a member of eight United States shooting teams in international competitions, including the 1963 Pan American Games where he won an individual and team gold medal and the 1964 Olympic Games, where he finished eighth in free pistol. He won five individual national shooting championships.
The Colt 1911 semi-automatic pistol that Smith used in the Pan American Games to set the world record is now on display at the NRA's National Firearms Museum in Fairfax, Virginia.
In 1988, the size of the shooting targets were changed and Smith's world record set in the 1963 Pan American Games is now considered retired, never to be broken.
After leaving the Air Force in 1975, Smith began training Olympic shooters in 1986 and moved to Oklahoma City to be under the care of the late Dr. William Grana, an orthopedic surgeon.
Smith, 81, survived a 1966 plane explosion over Greece but received multiple injuries that have required more than 90 operations in his lifetime.
Grana, a pioneer in sports medicine, worked with the United States Olympic Committee and as a physician for the United States 1988 Summer Olympic squad.
Smith has lived in Oklahoma City since then and served as past president of the Oklahoma Station Chapter Safari Club along with being a volunteer ROTC instructor at the University of Oklahoma.






But what pistol did he use?
Reply Posted by Don Nygord on March 02, 2001 at 12:07:49:
Sorry this is posted so long after the original thread regarding semi-autos vs. revolvers in the Centre Fire match, but TD Smith was travelling and only got back to me today. I shot with TD several times and heard the story from him many years ago, but not trusting my memory, I called the old warrior, wanting the information to come direct from the "shooter's mouth" considering how certain some of the posters were about what he used. Here are his words:
"Don, the pistol in question was a Colt 38 Super that Jimmy Clark converted to .38 special for me in 1959. It shot a Federal loading of .38 Special wad cutter that bench rested 1.3 inches at 50 yards. Lou Willing (Air Force gunsmith) went to Brazil with me and kept it in excellent shape. Down to the last 5 shots and there were 3 World Records on the line. I know you are aware of what goes through your mind as you punch those last 5 rounds into the magazine! What got me through was remembering Ad Topperwein who taught me to shoot as a boy. I shot those last 5 "for Ad". " Well, this won't put the argument of revolvers vs. semi-autos to rest but at least we know what TD used. By the way, I tied the US record on the old target with 598 (299/299) with a long slide Colt conversion to .38 special I built for myself and won the Pan Am gold with a .32 Erma. So there's two votes for semi-autos! Don
Pistol s/n 134722 Colt .38 Super Match (1958)

[Leon]

"Sorry, but it was .38 Special."

Hmmm - you are right. I should have known better than to question you :)

For some mysterious reason, I had .38 AMU in my head...

Speaking of .38 AMUs, look at this beauty which was found in a box of junk in a garage a couple of years ago...

Man, this is nice. Check the test target out.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=281061

[David M]

Little bit of history...
The model 1911 .38 Super Match came out in 1958.
This was a .38 super modified to .38 special Wad Cutter
by Jim Clark, it was the forerunner to the factory Colt National Match
Gold Cup in .38 Midrange wad cutter introduced in 1961 until 1974.