New Daisy 599 sportster rifle

[GaryN]

Anyone have any feedback on the new Daisy 599?

It looks nice, but is a few years late. The Crosman Challenger 2009 took most of the market.
But for a new shooter, another option is always nice to have.

[gspell68]

Not a bad looking rifle.

However, the proven Crosman Challenger is $30 cheaper and now comes with cantable precision sights.
It's pretty much a no brainer.
The Daisy's only upside for a junior shooter is fewer trips to the compressed air station.

I'm looking forward to seeing them in completion to see how they perform...

[jhmartin]

With all the allowances now granted to the Challenger it really is a precision gun. CMP has been snookered.
Add a suit, put the shooter in with the P-class and the scores will be very similar.

Anyone know a place to get a 599?

[gspell68]

Agreed!

I probably "wasted" about $3,000 outfitting my older son for precision shooting!

His best 3P precision score in competition with a Walther LG-400 is a 571 vs. a sporter competition score of 560 with a Challenger (not even with the new precision sights).

In the beginning, he wasn't certain he wanted to shoot precision in addition to sporter.
I honestly thought about just buying him a precision suit and a separate $45 Challenger trigger assembly and then tweaking it down to a couple of ounces and dropping it in.

[pcw]

I think the stock looks better than the Challenger. One of my main complaints about the Challenger is the grip on the rifle makes it hard to reach the trigger if you have small hands. The stock on the Daisy seems to have more of a pistol grip. The butt plate and cheek piece attachments seem better on the Daisy.
I wonder if Crosman made a precision stock that a Challenger action could drop right into, if people would buy that instead of buying a precision rifle. I don't see a lot of difference between the Daisy stock and a precision stock (except for adjustability).

[jhmartin]

After looking over the photos, yes, both challenger and 599 seen to share the many adjustable features that only precision guns held years ago.
The 599 looks more in line with the old XSV-40 with a modified ambi cocking handle a'la' the challenger. LOP is probably smaller than the challenger which is why we still use those old CZs for our smaller kids.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing better than shooting an accurate rifle.
The old 888's were an inexpensive rifle that I did not mind chopping down, if need be Daisy would sell me a replacement stock cheap if I ended up needing it.

At $600 price limit both major mfgrs (Daisy & Crosman) have plenty of room to play with here. With the 599 in the mix there may be parity again, but that will all depend on the barrel.

[gspell68]

I thought the new Daisy 599 was very Challenger-ish, too.

Ambi charging handle, the stocks seem to be of similar dimensions with very similar adjustments, and barrels made by reputable European arms makers.

From the 599's .pdf owner's manual, I don't foresee the trigger/air delivery assemblies being an improvement over the Crosman, so, like you said, any difference will probably come down to the barrels...

[gspell68]

I think the stock looks better than the Challenger. One of my main complaints about the Challenger is the grip on the rifle makes it hard to reach the trigger if you have small hands. The stock on the Daisy seems to have more of a pistol grip. The butt plate and cheek piece attachments seem better on the Daisy.
I wonder if Crosman made a precision stock that a Challenger action could drop right into, if people would buy that instead of buying a precision rifle. I don't see a lot of difference between the Daisy stock and a precision stock (except for adjustability).

The main complaint my sons' team has is the free-floating trigger guard the produces a "thhhhwaaaangggg" when you shoot it.
The Daisy seems to fix that with a full trigger guard.

[jhmartin]

From the 599's .pdf owner's manual, I don't foresee the trigger/air delivery assemblies being an improvement over the Crosman, so, like you said, any difference will probably come down to the barrels...

My complaint of the challenger is that the kids seem to feel that they need to end up charging it after at least standing .... some after every position.
If your shooters like to shoot a lot of sighters, the gun charge won't last a complete match.
You can get 2 full matches out of the XSV-40 and T200
3 Full matches out of the 888/887s.
The adverts note that you can get thru the whole match on a single charge ... I have no experience with them, so......

With the challenger, it's a mite of a stress point to the shooter, but an a stress point none-the-less. Taking the focus off the match for even a few minutes while you stand in line and hope the others are fast enough so that you can get back to your point before the changeover ends.
Just don't see why Crosman did not make the cylinder bigger.

[gspell68]

I finally got my sons trained to come off the firing line to get air as soon as they finish shooting.
It gives 'em a chance to beat the stress of standing in line and lets them get their resting heart rate back down after the walk.

And sometimes it helps to take that walk away from the firing line after shooting a sucky round!

[bandur60]

Just a side note to Joel's comment on a larger cylinder ---- Crosman's 1701 pistol charges to 200 bar, hopefully the Challenger will be upgraded to the same in the near future. ( Are you listening, Crosman? Have you had any similar suggestions/requests? Inquiring minds want to know!)

[GaryN]

I concur with @jhmartin.
I do not understand why a match rifle was designed and built with an air capacity so low that it would not reliably finish a match.

This is probably a situation where one side of the house was not talking to the other side.
Requirement => sighters + 60 shot match + finale = 90-100 shots.
Engineering => size the air cylinder, valve, etc to deliver the specified 100 shots.
Engineering/Manufacturing => Decides to use a smaller tank (or other component), for whatever reason, and ignore the requirements, without communicating back to the people who wrote the requirements.
- This happens in LOTs of companies, which is why you sometimes get stuff that makes you wonder "what were they thinking (or drinking) when they designed/built this ???"

[Pat McCoy]

The 499 problem is an extension of the "tree Swing" problem http://projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980

[95snake]

I just received the 599 for my son, and so far he loves it. Now, keep in mind he is a beginner Sporter shooter. At our club he was shooting the 887/888 and has never shot the Challenger, so he can't really say how they compare against each other. So far he has mainly been shooting sighters to get it sighted in, but even then he has shot about 90rds and the tank is still half way in the green. I bought a Yong Heng compressor for it since we shoot at home too, and it charges the cylinder up in about 20 seconds. I've shot about 15rds through it and the stock has a great feel to it. Now we need to start working on the trigger pull and getting that all adjusted. The first stage pull is very long, but the second stage breaks very nice and clean. The overtravel could be shorten a bit, but it's not horrible. My only complaint right now is there are no extra cylinders available for sale at this time, but with the capacity of the tank, it shouldn't be a problem.

Once we get more time on it, I'll post an update of any problems or short comings of the rifle.

[shawn706]

For the last two years at the Daisy Nationals they've invited all coaches with 3P expererience to try the prototyps and give input. It appears they've implimented a lot of the recomendations.

[JMHollowell]

From the 599's .pdf owner's manual, I don't foresee the trigger/air delivery assemblies being an improvement over the Crosman, so, like you said, any difference will probably come down to the barrels...

My complaint of the challenger is that the kids seem to feel that they need to end up charging it after at least standing .... some after every position.
If your shooters like to shoot a lot of sighters, the gun charge won't last a complete match.
You can get 2 full matches out of the XSV-40 and T200
3 Full matches out of the 888/887s.
The adverts note that you can get thru the whole match on a single charge ... I have no experience with them, so......

With the challenger, it's a mite of a stress point to the shooter, but an a stress point none-the-less. Taking the focus off the match for even a few minutes while you stand in line and hope the others are fast enough so that you can get back to your point before the changeover ends.
Just don't see why Crosman did not make the cylinder bigger.

I know this is was awhile ago, but have you had the seals checked? Our team uses a lot of the Challengers and can shoot an entire match w/ tons of sighters & still have plenty of air left.

Just a thought...

[jhmartin]

These are all the rifles.... new, used --- don't matter.
We have have an elephant walk after standing in our major matches ... it may be psychological .... they see the others so they do it too...???...

VC4H has 4 now ... we'll see.

[gspell68]

After my third trip to a national completion by airplane, the Daisy 599 might be a better choice than the Challenger 2009.
The Challengers do not travel well by air.

We went out of our way to disassemble and bubble-wrap the barrel/cylinder assembly and we still had two of the five start leaking in the area of the gauge, but a simple gauge swap doesn't fix it.
We even left a little pressure in the cylinders to counter the slightly negative pressure of a cargo hold at 30,000 feet on the seals.
The sears are a weak point, too; very easy to break if depressurized improperly.

Now it seems that the JROTC program has settled on a permanent annual rotation between CMP South, CMP North, and a mobile range in Phoenix based upon service.
For the competition we just attended this weekend in Phoenix, the winning coach at the tournament brought eight spare rifles.
The Daisy 599 may be the solution if it is more durable...

[lakiraly]

The Daisy 599 is a shorter stock that might work better for a younger (smaller) competitor.
The action is smoother than the Crossman Challenger.
IMO if the shooter is not on the small side I'd suggest staying with the Crossman Challenger.
I have not seen a Daisy 599 used in a JROTC match at Anderson Arena (Camp Perry Ohio).

[arpcat]

We have a couple of each, a few thoughts:
Crosman advantages: Lower PSI so the club air tank lasts longer. Has a longer sight radius, maybe a better sight?
Daisy 599 advantages: More length of pull adjustment makes for a much better club gun, lasts longer before it needs a refill (less work for coaches in practice).

Barrels are about the same length, but Crosman has that sort of bloop tube on the end to extend the sight radius, Daisy could easily fix that issue... The Daisy has more air - coaches filling tanks less often, but the 3000 lb club tank lasts a lot longer with the challengers filling to 2K, take your pick on what is better for you. Accuracy appears to be a toss up...although we did have 1 of the Daisy rifles somehow require a break in period? Went from awful to great on its own??