32 SW long dies

[400driver]

I have trawled through endless threads and am just looking for a recap from those in the know about 32 SW dies.
I have just received my Pardini in 32 SW and plan on shooting H&N .314 wadcutter bullets .
I read on this forum that the Dillon sizing die did not size the case deep enough and that there was a special die available if you called them . I rang them and they were not aware of such a die !

I’m about to order the quick change kit for my Dillon 650 and normally load 9MM with a mix of Redding and Lee dies with great results .

Just before I hit the buy button are there any more things to consider? If you have a particular brand of die - would you recommend it ?

It’s for ISSF Sport pistol.
Thanks
Mark

[Sa-tevo]

I'm hoping some folks with 32 experience help you out, but while waiting several of us went through a similar experience trying to make good 38 Special wadcutter loads and there is a lot of information that can be found at http://www.bullseyeforum.net/.

I ended up with a custom expander a friend with a lathe made for me to expand the brass for the length of the 38 Special HBWC swaged bullets I use. I also found it was helpful to use a sizing die from a different cartridge so the brass was sized smaller than the chamber but bigger than the sizing needed for jacketed bullets, which is what most sizing dies size to. This larger die helped with the larger/longer expander to reduce springback after expanding. The whole goal of the exercise was to keep the swaged bullets at the largest size for the barrel to minimize leading and get best accuracy.

Depending on what reloading press you use there are several options. http://www.noebulletmoulds.com/NV/ has a lot of expander options if your press can use a die station. If you are using a Dillon with a powder through expander then you may need a custom expander made for your bullets. (Discussed several time at Bullseyeforum) Sizing dies can be a matter of studying SAAMI specifications for your requirements. http://saami.org/specifications_and_inf ... df#page=10 For example, I use a Lee 38 Super sizing die for 38 Spl and a Hornady 454 Casull for 45 ACP.

Reloading lead bullets for Precision Pistol takes one into a new frontier that isn't always mapped well.

[400driver]

Well that is a good start! I will try and digest all this slowly before making an order. Appreciate the response.
Thanks
Mark

[Sa-tevo]

I saw your reply and had a few minutes free to sample what I recommended.

Here are a few threads that look promising:

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4766-32-sw-loads
http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t678-32-sw-long-basics
http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t6926-huge ... ng-reloads

[400driver]

Perfect , will read through them now.

Just been looking at the NOE sizing kit. IF i am buying the HN already at .314 am i correct in thinking that i dont need that product.

You are suggesting that it is the case sizing die in station 1 of my Dillon 650 that needs to size the brass to just the smallest bit under what I need?

Mark
ok been through all the above threads.
It seems that trying my once fired brass without resizing yields accurate results.
Roll crimp seems the way forward.
RCBS and Dillon dies seem popular as well as a Lyman M expander die.

[PFribley]

You might try not sizing. After tumbling my 32SW I would use a 9mm sizer only to knock the primer out.

[Sa-tevo]

"Just been looking at the NOE sizing kit. IF i am buying the HN already at .314 am i correct in thinking that i dont need that product."

I think you are looking at a bullet sizing kit. What I was recommending are the expander plugs: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_in ... ata7fnnrf2
Caution - I don't know if this is exactly what you need, it is just for use as an example. In this case the expander plug is a long 0.314" expander that also opens the case mouth to 0.318" like a Lyman M profile expander for easier and straighter insertion of the bullet. As I mentioned earlier about being off the map, this example is a rifle case expander I picked because the expander plug was longer than the pistol expanders. My custom made powder drop expander I use in my Dillon Square Deal B for 38 wadcutter has a profile like this NOE expander.

You want a sizing die that sizes the brass to feed reliably into the chamber but not squeeze the bullet undersize. The same with using a NOE expander or a custom Dillon powder drop expander that expands for the length of the bullet in the brass. I have to size my 38 Spl brass because my S&W M52-2 often makes a bulge in Winchester brass after firing. (I am leaving my Winchester brass at an indoor range now and moving to Starline) I don't need to size the brass very tight like most sizing dies in a caliber size do as I am not shooting smaller jacketed bullets. I also want my brass a little large (outside diameter) so when I expand with my expander die the brass will not spring back as much and I end up with larger inner diameter brass ready to have a wadcutter seated in the brass and not squeeze (size down) my soft lead wadcutter.

I think a Targettalk member that posts under the user name fc60 here (fc60 on Bullseyeforum too) has probably explained loading 32s best:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=39661
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=25682

Other topics to study is using Hornady One Shot case lube (or equivalent) and Alox tumble lubes (Lee Liquid Alox, White Label 45-45-10)

[Gregbenner]

The Dillon resizing die is not designed for. 314 bullet. Traditionally, 32 caliber is more like .308, At least in the US.

Depending on what brass I will be reloading, I purchased a Lee +2 and +3 sizing die. I bought mine last year, they were in stock and inexpensive. Dillon sells a special seating die for 32 long, if you can’t find it send me a PM.

As you are likely aware, there is another current thread running whereby someone is making a two-step expander for 32 ACP. You might look into that as well.

I would definitely suggest you look at UniqueTek, they sell a number of item for Dillon releases, including the Arradondo powder dispenser, which I think you’ll find you need for measuring such small quantities of powder consistently.

[400driver]

Having read most of the threads , I rang Dillon and I explained exactly what I would be reloading and asked about the " Special Dillon" options and the person told me I needed the standard dies. This didnt tie in with what I had read.
I will call again .

I will order the Uniqutek accessories, I already have quite a few of their products.
The Lee + sizing dies , I will look into ordering that. Are these just a sizing die for station 1 that is slightly larger?

So far I have gleaned that I need to expand the case to .315 to seat perfectly the .314.
I will re read the ACP thread.
Trying to get my shopping list in order before my next US visit in July.
Thanks all for the info.

[400driver]

I really dont think they are aware of this issue in Spain as nearly all who shoot 32 just buy a set of dies and reload. There are some good shooters in this category also who win regularly.
Perhaps when I get all the info collated and show them the results , they may look at the way they reload 32.
Thanks
Mark

[400driver]

Thanks for all the tips.
Ordering a Lee sizing die in +002
NOE Expansion plug .314-317
Do I still need the Dillon special wadcutter expansion funnel if i have the NOE or does the NOE go in the station after it?
Planning a Lee seating and Lee crimp die ( FCD or plain crimp?)

[Sa-tevo]

Thanks for all the tips.
Ordering a Lee sizing die in +002
NOE Expansion plug .314-317
Do I still need the Dillon special wadcutter expansion funnel if i have the NOE or does the NOE go in the station after it?
Planning a Lee seating and Lee crimp die ( FCD or plain crimp?)

A few ideas as I followed this thread.

If you are shooting a 32 S&W Long cartridge at 50 yards you probably need reloading steps to get better accuracy than if you only shoot at 25 meters. This may explain all the work the NRA Precision Pistol competitors put into the reloading process versus shooters in ISSF competitions.

Here is how I set up my Hornady Lock-N-Load progressive press for lead 45 ACP and would set up for 32 S&W Long or 38 Special the same way. It has five stations and may be similar to a Dillon 650 except for color and lack of Dillon AWESOMENESS (humor).

Station 1 is a sizing die
Station 2 is a NOE expander plug in a Lee Universal expander
Station 3 is a powder drop with a powder through expander.
Station 4 is a seater die
Station 5 is a crimp die

I don't use the powder through expander at Station 3 to flare the case, just to activate the powder drop.
I have lighting set up so I can see into the case as the cartridge moves from Station 3 to Station 4 to verify powder drop. before putting a bullet in the brass for seating.

With expanding for wadcutters I stand up a bunch of cases in a tray and spray case lube into them. You may also want to polish the NOE expander to prevent brass chips from galling onto the expander. I had the OD of the seater plug of my 38 Spl seating die turned down so if the case was a little long the seater plug would fit into the case and not catch on the lip and wrinkle the case.

Some people get good results not sizing their cases. In my S&W 38 Special pistols I get a bulge or the case becomes big and if I don't size the cases they won't fit in my Colt target revolver so I never tried not sizing.

[Mike38]

You might try not sizing. After tumbling my 32SW I would use a 9mm sizer only to knock the primer out.

Right or wrong, for my .32 S&WL reloads, I use a Lee "Universal" decapper which doesn't size the case. Then a .314 to .316 expander (special order from Lee). The .314 wadcutter bullets can be seated with my fingers, but I use the press to get consistent seating depth. Then crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die, which sizes the OD of the case as it crimps, and gives a snug fit case to bullet, but not enough to swag the bullet. These reloads pass the plunk test on my Benelli, and I've yet to have an alibi.

[hurt]

I tried quite a few of the mentioned techniques but decided on a simple set up: oversized lee sizing die decaps and trues the brass allowing the bullets to slide in easily later, slight flair at mouth(there is no expansion deeper because it is already large), powder, seat, and slight crimp. They shoot very good at 50 yards. At 25 meters they are tack drivers...2 years ago i managed a 100 in the precision stage of our State Championship...580 total. They rarely fail to chamber but i keep a box of regular sized cartridges for alibi series at 25 yards or dueling stage. At 25 it doesnt matter much accuracy wise for the sustained fire stages.

[oldcaster]

One more thing to pay attention to is brass. Some brass starts to get thicker on the insides closer to the top than others. Also some is quite a bit thicker too. If it is manufactured for a SWC bullet for a revolver where the bullet doesn't seat very deeply it doesn't matter. For a full wadcutter bullet it really matters because they seat so deeply. I have found Remington to be straight the deepest with Magtech the second and Lapua a close third. Federal is the worst that I measured. I only had two GFL's to measure and they both were very good but I would want to measure some more before I would make a definitive statement about them. I don't know if any of this will bother you since you are shooting at just 25 meters. All of my friends that were involved in shooting these guns which mostly were Benellis shot Remington brass with 1.6 grains of Accurate #2 and either an H&N .314 or a Saeco #323 casted with soft lead and lubed with soft lube. These were shot at 50 yards and all did well.

[Larry Wilkins]

Seems like a lot of ideas on 32 wad but I have used the standard 4 die set from RCBS for years with no problems.
Size cases I/8 short of pressure ring
Size only enough to expand case mouth to receive lead bullet, Seat with the seating die to barley flush
Taper crimp to hold bullet

Used the Walther in NRA out to 50 yards, no problem

Cheers

[Leon]

I honestly think that using any reasonable quality die with the factory expander will be OK. Us normal shooters would not notice a difference....At the super elite level, with perfect technique, maybe...

You would be best spending your time improving your shooting technique that fixating on expander sizes

[oldcaster]

You have apparently never fired a slowfire string at 50 yards.

[Gregbenner]

You have apparently never fired a slowfire string at 50 yards.

When I started the "fun" of reloading 32l, many of my reloads would not stay on a repair center consistently at 50 yards. Trying to take what might not be significant in reloading other calibers and applying it to 32 long can be a big mistake.

[oldcaster]

You are right Greg. It is stunning how crooked a gun can shoot just because the shell casing is swaging the bullet to a size that is too small for the barrel. 32's and 9mm both suffer from these conditions and maybe some more that I am not familiar with. 9mm and 32 ACP specifically because the cases taper quickly as you go down into the brass and they are short. There is also so much variation in different brands as to how quickly they taper or how thick they are.