Groups not reflecting sight picture

[inthebeech]

I am a "serious casual" target shooter, having tried and left the Bullseye fraternity after shooting a dozen matches, in favor of committing that time to other priorities. But I still take every trigger pull seriously when I am enjoying myself at the range, which is why I am more than a little curious about the following...

My sight picture shows a very consistent wobble of about two thirds of the three inch bull of the fifty foot reduced BE target; that means I can see real time that while maintaining good sight alignment, my front sight (or dot) wobbles randomly away from dead center about one inch in all directions. So theoretically if I had a "one hole" gun and all of the group's size were attributable to the shooter, I should see groups of about two inches CTC. Add to this some reasonable expectation for variation due to the gun/load and one might expect maybe three inch groups. Seems logical. However I am consistently getting sub one inch groups. Could those more experienced precision shooters who have theories regarding this apparent discrepancy, please share their thoughts?

Since this is a "shooting psychology / physiology" question, I didn't think that including details about the gun/load/shooting style...were important but I'm happy to give details if they are important to the quality and accuracy of your response.

Ed

[Rover]

" I can see real time that while maintaining good sight alignment"

You may THINK you can, but you're actually looking at the past and your reaction time will put it even further behind you.

Just sayin'.

[william]

After every shot ask yourself, "Where was the front sight when the trigger broke?" The answer often disagrees with where you think it is while it's swaying around in space and you're trying to catch up with it and make the shot. I'd add that it isn't a bad thing to move your lips when you do. It slows you down and helps you be truthful with yourself. What do you care if other guys on the line think you're nuts? They are all probably wearing women's underwear.

[Pat McCoy]

Congratulations! You are getting un-conscious (or some would say sub-conscious) trigger release, and small last micro second adjustments.

Your brain is recognizing the need for trigger release, and operting the triggering muscles, before you become consciously aware of it.

This is the goal shooters aim for in mental training.

[john bickar]

It's known as "shooting inside your call". Your trigger control is good.

AKA: There ya go - keep doing that.

[john bickar]

Also: bottle that shit and sell it.

[dtdtdtdt]

I see the same thing using Burris Fastfire red-dot type scopes on my pistols. I am not blessed with the problem of sub 1" groups the the author is because I just plain can't hold that still. However, holding the 3"black spot on a 50' target with my wobbles, I routinely can put all inside the 9 ring and am happy with that!!

I attribute the difference to the very slight magnification of the red-dot type sights. If I recall, the Fastfire is about 1.1 power and others are in the same range. i guess that makes the spot look a bit bigger than expected while the dot on the receiver of your gun is doesn't have the impact of the small magnification.

My best success comes when I am able to break the trigger with the dot exactly in the center of the black dot.

A couple of my red-dots have 3minute dots while a couple have larger brighter ones. Interestingly, my favorite one doesn't have as bright a dot and I can see it more clearly as a dot rather than a minature sun with a halo. Part of that is attributed to incipient cataracts that aren't yet operable.

A good problem to have!!

[busch45]

I believe we all have a wobble, some more than others. I also believe we all have our own pattern of wobble. Once you get accustom to your pattern, you can time the trigger release to get those sub 1" results.

[10M_Stan]

I found doing these exercises: http://pistol.mit.edu/wp-content/upload ... ctions.pdf helps with both sight alignment and recoil management during the shot. Not having enough strength in the wrist/hand/forearm can cause shots that appear to have a good sight picture to change during shot execution (i.e. trigger pull and follow through). At least, that is what I have noticed.

Edit: if you can roll a 5 lb weight 10 times up and 10 times down ~ 5 ft from the floor then strength is not the issue.