There seems to be a new minimum qualifying scores for AP (530; 500 for Jr), FP (520, 500 for Jr), and RT for one to get an automatic invitation to the USASNC. This is a new USA Shooting program. Check the website of USA Shooting under Match Programs. There is only one regional match for each region (Northeast, Southeast, Central, Southwest, and Northwest) and all are considered as Preliminary Tryouts (PTO's) for the USASNC. It now appears that USA Shooting requires a minimum score at regional matches for one to compete at the Nationals.
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43001.0
New Minimum Qualifying Scores for Nationals (USASNC)?
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Mick Young
Re: New Minimum Qualifying Scores for Nationals (USASNC)?
I dont agree with this policy. Here in Australia we can compete at the Nationals as a D Grader, and I believe that is a great Idea. This allows those shooters who are just starting out to see how the better shooters are not only equiped but how they go about there setup and the way they prepare and shoot there match. The best way to shoot better I believe is to have to perform to beat the best.
Keep'em in the middle
Mick
mickjyoung-at-optusnet.com.au.43005.43001
Keep'em in the middle
Mick
mickjyoung-at-optusnet.com.au.43005.43001
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Patrick
Re: New MQS for Nationals (USASNC)?
Yes, Canada has an open door policy to the Nationals as well. This policy is there to ensure that enough bodies attend to help the match break even. More importantly, you get to see the Nation's best shooters in action and get a feel for how a large match should be held.
I would think though that the USA may have the problem of too many people trying to attend. Consequently, they need to weed out some people to make the volume manageable.
Are the trials (PTOs??) open to everyone?
Also, for the Nationals, if foreigners attend (i.e. Canadian me), what do we do to prove that we've met the MQS?
Patrick
haynes-at-targetshooting.ca.43017.43005
I would think though that the USA may have the problem of too many people trying to attend. Consequently, they need to weed out some people to make the volume manageable.
Are the trials (PTOs??) open to everyone?
Also, for the Nationals, if foreigners attend (i.e. Canadian me), what do we do to prove that we've met the MQS?
Patrick
haynes-at-targetshooting.ca.43017.43005
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EfrenR
Re: New MQS for Nationals (USASNC)?
: Yes, Canada has an open door policy to the Nationals as well. This policy is there to ensure that enough bodies attend to help the match break even. More importantly, you get to see the Nation's best shooters in action and get a feel for how a large match should be held.
: I would think though that the USA may have the problem of too many people trying to attend. Consequently, they need to weed out some people to make the volume manageable.
: Are the trials (PTOs??) open to everyone?
: Also, for the Nationals, if foreigners attend (i.e. Canadian me), what do we do to prove that we've met the MQS?
: Patrick
USA Shooting's guideline for 2003 Regional Rifle, Pistol & Running Target Championships provides the following: "Eligibility. All competitors MUST be members of USA Shooting. Individuals may compete in as many Regional matches as they wish, though first, second and third place awards should be restricted to those competitions whose permanent legal address is within the region bounderies."
There is a list of states for each of the five regions, and obviously, no state/country outside the USA is listed under any of the regions. At the tryouts (PTO's), the only mandatory requirement is USA Shooting membership. I don't know if USA Shooting Rules require US citizenship for membership (its membership application form does not ask for citizenship/nationality info). I believe that IF there is no citizenship requirement, a foreigner can apply for USA Shooting membership, shoot at the Regionals, get a MQS (though not eligible for top three awards though) and qualify to shoot at the Nationals. USA Shooting may have some rules that allow foreigners to shoot at the Nationals as 'visitors' (there were quite a few foreigners who competed at the 2002 USASNC). With this new program, however, a foreigner who wants to compete has to contact USA Shooting and ask what are required from them. If a foreigner/visitor is not required to meet MQS under a different rule, then it is only fair for some of us American shooters who do not meet the required MQS to compete at the Nationals as 'visitors' (this scenario defeats the purpose of having Regionals). Weeding out competitors and bringing it down to a manageable level at the Nationals seems to be the reason for this new program. But in doing so, did USAS (unintentionally or not) also weed out foreigners at the Nationals by not specifically addressing that issue at the Regional level?
So give USAS a call, Patrick, and I'm sure they should have answers to your questions.
Efren
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43035.43017
: I would think though that the USA may have the problem of too many people trying to attend. Consequently, they need to weed out some people to make the volume manageable.
: Are the trials (PTOs??) open to everyone?
: Also, for the Nationals, if foreigners attend (i.e. Canadian me), what do we do to prove that we've met the MQS?
: Patrick
USA Shooting's guideline for 2003 Regional Rifle, Pistol & Running Target Championships provides the following: "Eligibility. All competitors MUST be members of USA Shooting. Individuals may compete in as many Regional matches as they wish, though first, second and third place awards should be restricted to those competitions whose permanent legal address is within the region bounderies."
There is a list of states for each of the five regions, and obviously, no state/country outside the USA is listed under any of the regions. At the tryouts (PTO's), the only mandatory requirement is USA Shooting membership. I don't know if USA Shooting Rules require US citizenship for membership (its membership application form does not ask for citizenship/nationality info). I believe that IF there is no citizenship requirement, a foreigner can apply for USA Shooting membership, shoot at the Regionals, get a MQS (though not eligible for top three awards though) and qualify to shoot at the Nationals. USA Shooting may have some rules that allow foreigners to shoot at the Nationals as 'visitors' (there were quite a few foreigners who competed at the 2002 USASNC). With this new program, however, a foreigner who wants to compete has to contact USA Shooting and ask what are required from them. If a foreigner/visitor is not required to meet MQS under a different rule, then it is only fair for some of us American shooters who do not meet the required MQS to compete at the Nationals as 'visitors' (this scenario defeats the purpose of having Regionals). Weeding out competitors and bringing it down to a manageable level at the Nationals seems to be the reason for this new program. But in doing so, did USAS (unintentionally or not) also weed out foreigners at the Nationals by not specifically addressing that issue at the Regional level?
So give USAS a call, Patrick, and I'm sure they should have answers to your questions.
Efren
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43035.43017
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Mako
Re: New Minimum Qualifying Scores for Nationals (USASNC)?
I haven't looked into this ... but I seriously doubt it's to minimize attendance. Attendance at the Nationals continues to drop every year. This year there were only about 40 AP shooters, last year, 50 something, the year before 63 ... in the past there were over 100. Then it made sense to limit the amount of shooters. Now we are just trying to get enough participants to help cover costs!
If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.43037.43001
If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.43037.43001
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EfrenR
Any club hosting the 2003 Southwest Region Pistol Championsh
Does anyone know if any club from the southwest states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming is hosting a regional pistol championship? Other regions (Southeast and Northwest) had already come up with their competition programs.
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43039.43001
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43039.43001
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EfrenR
Re: New Minimum Qualifying Scores for Nationals (USASNC)?
: I haven't looked into this ... but I seriously doubt it's to minimize attendance. Attendance at the Nationals continues to drop every year. This year there were only about 40 AP shooters, last year, 50 something, the year before 63 ... in the past there were over 100. Then it made sense to limit the amount of shooters. Now we are just trying to get enough participants to help cover costs!
: If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
: As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
: A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
Mako,
I am a new shooter and this new program made me feel that USAS doesn't need my fees to help cover the cost of holding the Nationals. Do you recall during a meeting at the 2003 USASNC at Ft. Benning, an official said that USAS is financially in good shape (words to that effect)? Maybe the "other half"'s money is really not needed to run the nationals. My family (specially my junior shooter) is a great fan of USA Shooting and will continue to support this organization in whatever way we can. Although I am disappointed at this new program, at the same time, I could only rationalize that USAS really wants the national championship as a competition among champions (like other sports at the national level, and it gives me a motive to practice or train well so I could advance to a higher level and compete with our elite shooters. Although I personally don't like it, this new program may, after all, be well-intentioned with no malice aforethought.
.43040.43037
: If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
: As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
: A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
Mako,
I am a new shooter and this new program made me feel that USAS doesn't need my fees to help cover the cost of holding the Nationals. Do you recall during a meeting at the 2003 USASNC at Ft. Benning, an official said that USAS is financially in good shape (words to that effect)? Maybe the "other half"'s money is really not needed to run the nationals. My family (specially my junior shooter) is a great fan of USA Shooting and will continue to support this organization in whatever way we can. Although I am disappointed at this new program, at the same time, I could only rationalize that USAS really wants the national championship as a competition among champions (like other sports at the national level, and it gives me a motive to practice or train well so I could advance to a higher level and compete with our elite shooters. Although I personally don't like it, this new program may, after all, be well-intentioned with no malice aforethought.
.43040.43037
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Mako
You will have no problem getting a MQS! :-) nt.
: : I haven't looked into this ... but I seriously doubt it's to minimize attendance. Attendance at the Nationals continues to drop every year. This year there were only about 40 AP shooters, last year, 50 something, the year before 63 ... in the past there were over 100. Then it made sense to limit the amount of shooters. Now we are just trying to get enough participants to help cover costs!
: : If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
: : As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
: : A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
: Mako,
: I am a new shooter and this new program made me feel that USAS doesn't need my fees to help cover the cost of holding the Nationals. Do you recall during a meeting at the 2003 USASNC at Ft. Benning, an official said that USAS is financially in good shape (words to that effect)? Maybe the "other half"'s money is really not needed to run the nationals. My family (specially my junior shooter) is a great fan of USA Shooting and will continue to support this organization in whatever way we can. Although I am disappointed at this new program, at the same time, I could only rationalize that USAS really wants the national championship as a competition among champions (like other sports at the national level, and it gives me a motive to practice or train well so I could advance to a higher level and compete with our elite shooters. Although I personally don't like it, this new program may, after all, be well-intentioned with no malice aforethought.
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.43043.43040
: : If the MQS for FP was 520 ... only about 14 of the 35 or so FP shooters would have qualifited this year. Yes that is pathetic .... but at least the "other half" help make it possible to even hold a National Championship.
: : As others have pointed out ... going to the Nationals as a new shooter is a great experience and would hopefully inspire to greater things ...
: : A young lady shot her first AP match at the Nationals this year. She qualified for the Finals and ended up something like 7th ... hopefully next year she will be vying for a top spot ...
: Mako,
: I am a new shooter and this new program made me feel that USAS doesn't need my fees to help cover the cost of holding the Nationals. Do you recall during a meeting at the 2003 USASNC at Ft. Benning, an official said that USAS is financially in good shape (words to that effect)? Maybe the "other half"'s money is really not needed to run the nationals. My family (specially my junior shooter) is a great fan of USA Shooting and will continue to support this organization in whatever way we can. Although I am disappointed at this new program, at the same time, I could only rationalize that USAS really wants the national championship as a competition among champions (like other sports at the national level, and it gives me a motive to practice or train well so I could advance to a higher level and compete with our elite shooters. Although I personally don't like it, this new program may, after all, be well-intentioned with no malice aforethought.
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.43043.43040
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Marilyn
Re: New MQS for Nationals (USASNC)?
There are many non-Americans belonging to USA Shooting. Patrick, you can probably think of 3 or 4 easily.
Although there are many Canadians living in the U.S.A. who belong, I know there are also some with Canadian addresses.
mumby-at-cips.ca.43078.43035
Although there are many Canadians living in the U.S.A. who belong, I know there are also some with Canadian addresses.
mumby-at-cips.ca.43078.43035
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Michael Ray
Re: New Minimum Qualifying Scores for Nationals (USASNC)?
: It now appears that USA Shooting requires a minimum score at regional matches for one to compete at the Nationals.
It says for automatic entry, which may mean they will send anyone that meets the MQS an entry form and everyone else needs to request one. I sent an email to competitions to see what's up. If they really do require a MQS again, that would be a very stupid move.
.43087.43001
It says for automatic entry, which may mean they will send anyone that meets the MQS an entry form and everyone else needs to request one. I sent an email to competitions to see what's up. If they really do require a MQS again, that would be a very stupid move.
.43087.43001
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Michael Ray
USAS says USASNC will still be open
Just got this response back:
The USASNC will be an open match. The Zone/Regional program just needs to
be redone.
Mary S. Smith
Competitions Manager
USA Shooting
.43090.43001
The USASNC will be an open match. The Zone/Regional program just needs to
be redone.
Mary S. Smith
Competitions Manager
USA Shooting
.43090.43001
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EfrenR
Re: USAS says USASNC will still be open
We welcome this good news, specially us (Kalifornians) who didn't know that the Southwest Regional Championship was already held in Utah sometime in June 2003. I doubt if any shooter from the rest of the southwest states flew or drove to Utah to shoot the required MQS for the nationals. I was making plans to drive or fly my junior shooter to Idaho for the Northwest Regional Competition next month as a non-northwest-resident shooter so he could qualify for the Nationals. I'm glad that USAS management had come to their senses and realized that this new program, no matter how good the intention may have been, is bad for our shooting sports and only delivers a fatal blow to our already 'dying sports'. It will dis-enfranchised and alienate a lot of shooters, and consequently and certainly put into question USAS' primary obligation under federal law to promote the shooting sports. As a friend of USAS, I firmly believe that its management and volunteers really strive to promote shooting sports to the best of their ability. As a lawyer, however, I cannot help but view things in legal perspective. This program does not do our sports any good benefit, notwithstanding its legal ramifications.
Thanks Mr. Ray for your effort in checking with USAS. Thanks USAS for keeping the Nationals open. Welcome Patrick and the rest of our Canadian friends and foreign shooters (athletes) to our Nationals. Now that we still can keep our family of diverse shooters together, I can't wait to see those familiar faces at the Nationals, the elites and the neophytes, the well-desciplined and the hot-heads, serious and goofy faces, beauties and beasts, winners and losers, et. etc. etc. These are the people that makes the National interesting. And these are the same people who keep coming back to the Nationals and deliver some surprises, with new champions who came from nowhere, where champions are made and discovered. That gives us, neophytes, some hope.
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43095.43090
Thanks Mr. Ray for your effort in checking with USAS. Thanks USAS for keeping the Nationals open. Welcome Patrick and the rest of our Canadian friends and foreign shooters (athletes) to our Nationals. Now that we still can keep our family of diverse shooters together, I can't wait to see those familiar faces at the Nationals, the elites and the neophytes, the well-desciplined and the hot-heads, serious and goofy faces, beauties and beasts, winners and losers, et. etc. etc. These are the people that makes the National interesting. And these are the same people who keep coming back to the Nationals and deliver some surprises, with new champions who came from nowhere, where champions are made and discovered. That gives us, neophytes, some hope.
ratherbe-at-adelphia.net.43095.43090