Returning to shooting, new to me 10m AP, groups suck :-(

[Finelld]

I am picking up 10m AP after about 9 years from shooting. I had been using an IZH-46M. Before my break from shooting I was shooting series in the 92-94 range. I was very rusty when I picked the izh back up again. I was averaging in the 70s to 80s. But I was improving and my scores were improving. I saw a used hammerli 480k2 at a reasonable price so I jumped. I had wanted a pcp pistol for decades they were just out of my price range. The last series I shot with the izh was a 90.

The first shot I tried with the hammerli didn't even hit the target. I have been adjusting the sights and grips to fit me. I think the sights are now fairly close, but I am having a difficult time keeping the shots in the black. My biggest concern is if it is the pistol or is it me? One series I shot with the hammerli suggests that it is me. Five rounds were in a group about the size of a nickel. The other five were all over the place. The score on that series was about 65. There are several possible factors for this, but I wanted to know if anyone else has experienced something similar.

Contributing factors may include; fatigue, I haven't had much sleep lately; weak muscles, muscles are sore from holding/shooting Pistol after being away so long; pellets, I had been using Nygord world champion 4.49mm pellets with my izh, just getting use to the characteristics of the new pistol; and while I hope not, the pistol itself. I noticed that the hammerli's rifleing is less aggressive and deep as my izh. I would greatly appreciate people's thoughts. I love the action and feel of the Hammerli. I just hope the issues are mine and not the pistol and I just need to adjust and keep working at it.

[william]

I've found that it's less stressful if I call them "patterns" instead of "groups."

To be a little serious, I recall the 480k2 being very light. I had to go to a short AP to reduce strain on my aging elbow and injured shoulder. Scores fell. I added a barrel weight, and things started going in a better direction. A bit more mass can help damp out some of the twitches & trembles.

And ignore Rover when he attacks you for switching from SSP to PCP.

[Rover]

Put it in a vise and shoot a ten shot group. Then you'll KNOW it's you.

I DO have to say, though, that a guy in my club has one that is shooting like crap. He is reluctant to drop the huge sum it will require to replace the striker spring I told him was the problem.

[ghillieman]

Don't beat yourself up over it, just go shoot and have some fun, your scores will come back.

Not many air pistol matches in Texas....
Team Shooting Stars in Dallas has PTO matches.....
Some of the Bullseye Pistol crowd in Austin have started a club air pistol match, or have talked about it....

Do you shoot Bullseye Pistol? A few really good shooters live in San Antonio. The Black Hawk Range in San Antonio has informal Bullseye Matches. Austin Rifle Club has NRA Approved 2700 every 3rd Sunday. If your on Facebook join our group called Texas Precision Pistol Network.

Good luck and hope to see you around.

[hundert]

I'd second low pistol weight, keep it above 1000g

I used an abus lock to increase weight by about 50g before I ordered wiehgts, to see how it goes (make sure to use tape inbetween so you don't scratch the barrel/pistol), bring it up to 1000g. If you improve, then order the original weights.

Any tiny mistake on the trigger with a light gun and you're basically in the white, because the trigger pull has to be at least 500g and has a lot of effect on a light weight guns

[Finelld]

Update-

I tried some RWS pellets and really concentrated on my trigger control and saw a dramatic improvement. I am not shooting better than 90s yet, but I did shoot an 84. I will need to do a lot more practice and perhaps look into getting some weights. Thanks for the feedback.

[Pheyden]

Finelid,

Welcome to the world of AP. I would have to concur that it would help if the weight if the pistol was around 1000 gram.

Second, I would check the trigger for release weight. To be legal it needs to be 500 grams or more. Then there are different ways to set up the stages of the trigger. When I first started with my current MGH1 pistol it was set up with a first stage of 480 gram, and a second stage of 35 gram. This made for a very crisp release, but the problem was that it as almost impossible to predictably manage the second stage. At the suggestion of my coach, I changed it so that the first stage is about 300 gram and the second stage 225 gram. The second stage now requires a much more definitive actuation. Thus is not to say that it is abrupt in nature, in fact just the opposite. You just have to trust yourself that when the hold develops, you have the confidence to automatically release the second stage. It ahoukd wtill be a surprize when it goes off. Part of this is not waiting for the "perfect" hold. If you do this, because of the mind-action delay (.2 second), the shot will land elsewhere anyway.

Having not shot for a while, analyze your posture. Your head should remain erect. If you find your head dropping, to bring the sights into alignment, then most likely you shots will be low. Tie this in with developing a repeatable Natural Position of Aim (NPA).

Find an old candle and black the front and rear sights. The additional contrast differential, between the front sight a d the target bull, will allow better concentration on the front sight. If both the sight and the bull are a similar grey, then the eye has a tendency to drift away from the front sight. (Having random unexplained shots is a classic outcome of losing the front sight)

You did not mention what kind of shooting glasses you use, what kind of blinder etc. if you are an older shooter (over 50), then special shooring glasses may be of help. I can give you some suggestions if you like.

I do not want to come across as an expert, just somone who has been through many of the teething pains. I first picked up a pistol at age 66, so I was probably well oast the use-by date.

Finally, in an effort ot provide a more "match-like" environment, I started the 10M Pistol Competition League on Facebook. A friendly "modern" postal league, with one match per month. At the moment we have 55 registered shooters ranging in age fro 14-70 years of age, ale and female, experienced and beginner. The idea is to get you into a competitive frame of mind.

Hope some of these ideas that hlped me are of some use to you. However mileage may vary.

[Finelld]

Pheyden,

Thank you for the welcome. I was active in AP starting around 2000 on my own using an IZH-46 and upgrading to the M version. I have never competed, but enjoyed the sport on my own. I was able to hold groups about the size of the 9 ring when I became occupied with other things like work, etc. I retired from the Air Force in 2009, went back to school, earned another degree, and have been shooting photography since. For fun I signed up for the Citizens Police Academy. I decided to pick up my IZH and practice my skills so I wouldn't embarrass myself too much when it came time to shoot. I was very rusty. I found this used Hammerli on this site at a price within my range. I had always wanted a PCP AP but couldn't afford one. I had always imagined that a PCP AP would be easier to shoot and be more forgiving than the old trusty IZH. I had a very rude awakening. The pistol is definitely easier to shoot, but it is much less forgiving with trigger control. I was already very aware of the 500g trigger rule from when I started the sport.

There have been a few changes in rules that I will need to get use to and find solutions for if I choose to compete in major events. The first is how finals are run, the second is about allowing noise and music during shooting, and lastly is requiring PCP cylinders to be less than ten years old. I don't think new cylinders are or will be available for my Hammerli ever again. I doubt if the powers to be would let me use a new cylinder that I had machined out of titanium even if it's specs far exceeded OEM. I don't know what it would be worth having the Hammerli converted to use available new cylinders. So if I were to seriously compete I would probably need to buy another new AP or compete with the IZH. I would probably go with a Styer LP2 or a Walther LP400, or a Hammerli AP20 PRO. I would need to see how well Hammerli remains supported.

Right now I am going to concentrate on getting back in shape, in more ways than one:-) And work on my hold and trigger control. I might do some more adjustments on trigger position and verify the trigger weight. I hadn't checked the trigger weight since I received the pistol. I still have a 500g trigger weight that I made to check my IZH trigger when I started AP. It will work fine and I know it is very accurate. But most of all I intend to have fun! I just need to get some locals involved in the sport to share the experience. Unfortunately most of the are cheaper than I am, and I'm a ham radio operator. FYI ham radio operators invented copper wire by fighting over a penny.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. 10.9s to you all.

Best regards,

David Finell

[Pheyden]

Give the PCL league a try. It will help you in honing your competitive skills, and you can use either if the two pistols you own.

Best regards,

Paul