Bullseye .22 pistol dilemma

[SixtyLion]

Hello everyone, Happy Holidays!

My first post here! My friend got me involved in Bullseye and I've been doing it for a little over a year now. I like it a lot, shooting, competing, and meeting good people in the process! Right now I am facing a dilemma and I hope you guys can help me with that. My main .22 pistol used to be a Ruger Mark 3 with Volquartsen upgrades; it was a very good gun yet very heavy with red-dot and target grips almost 50 ounces. Another problem, since I live in NY, local firearms laws classified majority of target pistols as an "assault weapon" due to magazine located outside of the grip. I narrowed down my choice to these guns Hammerli Xesse, 208/215, Walther SSP and FWB AW93. I know that Hammerli discontinued 208/215 pistols, however I've seen these guns in very good/excellent condition for $1000-1700, Walther SSP is more expensive, so here is my question what should I get? What is the situation with spare parts for Hammerli pistols, is it worth to get currently produced gun such as Xesse or pay extra for Walther or FWB? Lastly, what do you guys think about Ultradot L/T (current model with push button adjustments). Any suggestions, advices, and recommendations are greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[ChipEck]

I had an AW93 before I moved to a Pardini. The AW93 has a great trigger but mounting a dot sight on one limits you. While you can buy full size rails and mount a full size dot sight that is a royal pain. You need either an Aimpoint micro or maybe the Ultradot micro and order a short sight base from Breznovich. It is quite a pistol, but that is the most expensive option you listed.

Chip

[jaxontarget]

I'm new here myself. Been back at Bullseye for two years now after over a decade away. I'm not competing yet...it's just kind of a Zen practice for me at this point. I'd suggest you search out a gentleman named Julian, I believe, who goes by "Nikita" on several different forums. He has extensive knowledge of the pistols you are considering and is very generous, in my experience,in sharing. He does also sell some of these pistols, but I never felt that was his agenda in sharing. Some of his existing posts on the subject are quite extensive and informative. Do a search on "Nikita" and "Hammerli" and you're likely to come accross one ore more of his posts on the subject. I'm not sure if he's a member here. FWIW I'm using vintage pistols - a Smith M41 and a Walther GSP - both from the 70's with some minor alterations to fit my preferences. I had a Ruger Hunter for a short while but could not get used to the grip angle. Good luck with your quest!

[Rover]

Nut up and go back to your Ruger. If the weight bothers you, go with iron sights. That way you can shoot International as well.

[iowatom]

i see you are familiar with volquartsen. they are located in our area. i have a scorpion, awesome pistol. and weight is not an issue. i have a ruger government model mkii and the scorpion with case & 3 mags weighs significantly less. ample area for any picatinny rail optic you would want to use. and the compensator volquartsen has for the scorpion is awesome. i am a novas target shooter, but take my equipment seriously. i have an indoor 10 meter range to shoot avanti 747 & ihz46 to keep practiced up for the times we go to the public range. i used to be a local FFL dealer and had many of the rugers go through the shop. you know how well they handle & ease of takedown for cleaning. just my 2 cents, hard to beat the volquartsen scorpion. from the light weight to the trigger to the nice picatinny rail to the compensator to the smooth bolt assembly onto the grips (i like the hogue rubber flat sides)
just my 2 cents
iowatom

[SixtyLion]

Thank you for your help guys!
Jaxontarget, it is funny that you mentioned Julian. I e-mailed him regarding Hammerli pistols that he listed for sale and he was very informative and helpful.

Rover and iowatom, I am really thinking about going back to Ruger especially after release of Mark IV. I really want to check this gun out.

[jaxontarget]

Thank you for your help guys!
Jaxontarget, it is funny that you mentioned Julian. I e-mailed him regarding Hammerli pistols that he listed for sale and he was very informative and helpful.

Glad to hear it. He's put up some extensive posts that go over some of the differences of the various pistols and versions as well, again, under "Nikita"

For me, at this point, any of the guns I have, or those you're considering, shoot better than I do, and think the $ investment is worth far more in bullets and range time, than hardware. Find what works for you. Ultimately its just a tool. Its the person and experience behind it that's making all the difference. Practice is by far the most valuable thing for me at this point.

Yes, one of the other things I really had issues with around the Ruger Mk III was the cleaning/breakdown. Unlike one of the other posters here, I found it to be more complex and drawn out than I'd like. Perhaps with time it becomes routine, but I didn't give it that much because I never was able to get comfortable with the grip angle. The Mk IV looks to be a vast improvement in the realm of fieldstripping - much simpler than its predecessors. Both my pistols are very easy to field strip and clean. Both are also not at all picky about their diets, especially the GSP, which seems almost immune to failures. The 41 is just a bit more finicky, but not overly so. That might be another consideration for choosing your hardware.

[SixtyLion]

Jaxontarget,

100% agree with you range time and propper training are cruical. I am actually working few days a week at my local range, and practice when I have time. As for Ruger MK III, its disassembly process discourages a lot of people from buying that gun, though for the price MKIII is a very good and versatile pistol with almost unlimited upgrade possibilities. I like Smith and Wesson 41, shot it on several ocassions, very nice gun. Walther GSP is a fantastic gun, I saw them used for $800-1200 in excellent condition, yet I cannot buy it in NY. Lots of great guns very hard to choose!!! Anyway, I appreciate your help! Happy Holidays!!!

[jaxontarget]

Jaxontarget,

100% agree with you range time and propper training are cruical. I am actually working few days a week at my local range, and practice when I have time. As for Ruger MK III, its disassembly process discourages a lot of people from buying that gun, though for the price MKIII is a very good and versatile pistol with almost unlimited upgrade possibilities. I like Smith and Wesson 41, shot it on several ocassions, very nice gun. Walther GSP is a fantastic gun, I saw them used for $800-1200 in excellent condition, yet I cannot buy it in NY. Lots of great guns very hard to choose!!! Anyway, I appreciate your help! Happy Holidays!!!

Glad to be of some help. I'm from NYC and lived there until '91. I just shot 10m AP when I lived there. I lived in a loft where I could shoot 10 meters down a hallway. I do recall the many restrictions of owning and shooting in the city always kept me away from standard pistol when I lived there. Don't know if they are better or worse since then. I forgot about the forward magazine stuff you mentioned in the OP - crazy they don't make exceptions. The 41 also has upgrade paths, though more limited I'd guess than the Ruger. Clark's Guns being the one that comes to mind. There's a guy selling an AW93 on the Buy/Sell here that was still available last I checked, but I think the price may have been kind of high. Back at'cha with the Holiday cheer!

[Chia]

Just my .02: I do agree 100% about the work, but with the caveat that the tool should fit you in the first place.

Good shooting and happy holidays folks.

[Gregbenner]

I have an AW93 and love it. I have an Ultradot Matchdot 2 attached using George Brenzovich's adaptor. Works well. Trigger is awesome, foe me as nice as any of the other Olympic pistols I have. I don't shoot well enough to comment authoritatively on accuracy, but it seems excellent. Also, George Brenzovich is super helpful and always seems available.

[Chuckiep]

I have a 208S, and have put up more than a few 880's with it. The parts are scary expensive, but, i have never had to replace any after 6 seasons..

But, I use my Nelson with a ultradot 1" lately. Recently shot an 882 with it. oh, and I have shot all guns listed below. I like AW93 the least, by alot actually. Mainly because of the swept back grip angle and the wierd recoil impulse. I have a 1911 grip on my 208s too btw. I also really prefer crispy crisp triggers, and most swinging type triggers make that need difficult to achieve.

I weighed the pistols I have access too:

(ALL HAVE AN ULTRA DOT MATCH DOT W/ALUMINUM RINGS)

S&W Mod 41: 50.15oz
Hammerli 208s: 46.8oz
FWB AW93: 45.65oz
1911 w/Nelson .22: 43.1oz (36.75 w/irons)
Hammerli SP20: 34.15oz (but front loading)

For those that don't use oz very often 5oz is about $6.50 in quarters.