Walther SSP or Benelli MP90S

[deadeyedick]

I own the latest incarnation that has the rear sight which is infinitely adjustable for width and depth of the rear notch.
Having said that, the "latest version" has been around for possibly four years and is best identified by the trigger assembly housing being anodised silver instead of black.

My understanding is that Leon has the same pistol.

[Gwhite]

I have two Benelli MP90S's, and help coach a team with another 20 or so. The team pistols have every version of trigger imaginable, with the possible exception of the latest design. I'm not sure if Benelli made any significant changes to the inner workings of the trigger in the last round of upgrades. I've looked at the manual, and it doesn't appear any different. Most of the changes were the new rear sight, and the front take-down pin.

The last major changes to the trigger that I'm aware of was the addition of a top lever for the disconnector mechanism. The first iteration has a lever that is straight across the top, but that killed the ability to dry fire with the chamber plug in place. The latest version (which has been around for at least 6 or 7 years) uses a lever with a bump at the front end. This restored the dry fire capability. Neither of my Benellis have the latest lever, and I plan on retrofitting the new lever on both when I get a chance. It has to be fitted carefully to ensure safe operation of the trigger, so it isn't just a drop-in replacement.

I agree with the others. For some reason, the Benelli is more forgiving than any other pistol I have shot. I have a Pardini SP New, and I just can't shoot it as well. I've tried to duplicate the grip, trigger pull, weight & balance of the Benelli on the Pardini, but somehow I can't get close enough duplicate the overall performance when shooting.

[Chia]

I have two Benelli MP90S's, and help coach a team with another 20 or so. The team pistols have every version of trigger imaginable, with the possible exception of the latest design. I'm not sure if Benelli made any significant changes to the inner workings of the trigger in the last round of upgrades. I've looked at the manual, and it doesn't appear any different. Most of the changes were the new rear sight, and the front take-down pin.

The last major changes to the trigger that I'm aware of was the addition of a top lever for the disconnector mechanism. The first iteration has a lever that is straight across the top, but that killed the ability to dry fire with the chamber plug in place. The latest version (which has been around for at least 6 or 7 years) uses a lever with a bump at the front end. This restored the dry fire capability. Neither of my Benellis have the latest lever, and I plan on retrofitting the new lever on both when I get a chance. It has to be fitted carefully to ensure safe operation of the trigger, so it isn't just a drop-in replacement.

I agree with the others. For some reason, the Benelli is more forgiving than any other pistol I have shot. I have a Pardini SP New, and I just can't shoot it as well. I've tried to duplicate the grip, trigger pull, weight & balance of the Benelli on the Pardini, but somehow I can't get close enough duplicate the overall performance when shooting.

Maybe it's an ammunition issue? I don't know if you're talking about a 32 or a 22 here, but I'd imagine either could cause issues.

[Gwhite]

Maybe it's an ammunition issue? I don't know if you're talking about a 32 or a 22 here, but I'd imagine either could cause issues.

This all .22, and I've experienced the "forgiving" nature of the Benelli vs the Pardini with quite a few brands. I shot a Benelli for years, and when my daughter started shooting, I bought myself a Pardini so she could shoot the MP90S. From day one with the Pardini, I felt I shot the Benelli better. I figured I just needed to get used to it, and/or tweak the balance, grips etc. I spent YEARS fussing with it, all the while with the annoying feeling the Benelli shot better. My daughter announced that "her" Benelli was NOT available, but Massachusetts made it illegal to buy them. We got the law fixed about two years ago, and I managed to find a used one. The first time I shot it, it just felt BETTER, and my league average jumped about 3% over the course of a year.

I just got back from the range, shooting Eley Target. There were (as usual) quite a few shots I called further out than they ended up on the target. In slow fire, my calls are generally pretty close. In timed & rapid, I can only develop an rough impression of where the shots are going. I had a number of called 8's that were 9's, and 9's that were 10's. When I used to shoot the Pardini, if anything, the shots were often slightly worse than what I expected.

I'd love to figure out what the difference is, but I'm definitely sticking with the Benelli.

[Chia]

I think you should definitely stick with the Benelli. If it's not ammo or mechanical (and based on your previous posts, you know a hell of a lot about the mechanics of pistols), then maybe it's psychological.

I had an issue with my EVO 10 where I thought that one of the two cylinders that came with it was starting to lose pressure after only 30 shots or so. I typically shoot in the black. After 30 shots, I would start getting shots in the white more and more frequently and the shot pattern spread out. It only seemed to happen with that one cylinder (I could shoot 40+ with the other and not have any issues). I told my wife about it, blaming the cylinder. She suggested that I keep the cylinder on the gun that night and try again the next day to see if the problem was still happening.

So, next day, I picked up the gun and, after warming up, began firing. I got the same result as the night before: spread everywhere. I complained to my wife, and she told me to check the cylinder. I was surprised to discover that she had switched the two cylinders I owned when I wasn't looking! Apparently I was shooting crappy shots on a fully operational cylinder. Something flicked in my brain, and I haven't had the problem with spreading shots since then. Sure, I have issues with endurance, but those definitely look different on paper than the "cylinder" issue.

There was nothing wrong with the cylinder whatsoever. Instead, I had somehow convinced my brain that there was an issue, so I shot like there was an issue. The brain's a funny thing. Maybe you're experiencing something similar? The fact that you're saying that you had the issue "from day one" seems to indicate to me that you had some sort of thought process that the Pardini was different, and possibly inferior. Further shots reinforced that belief, as did your mechanical modifications (you were trying to "fix" the pistol to shoot just like your Benelli). If the problem is in fact psychological, that would explain why no mechanical changes helped.

[Gwhite]

I'm not the only person that has reported the "Benelli" effect. It could be at least partly mental, but if you read all the hype, the Pardini should be a better pistol, and my wife shoots hers extremely well. Oddly enough, the top shooters in the Greater Boston Pistol League fire a very mixed collection of hardware. There's my wife's Pardini plus one other, a newish GSP, a Hammerli of some sort, and a guy who shoots a Marvel .22 conversion on a 1911 frame.

Even if you had two identical weight pistols, with the same grip, sights & trigger and even balance point, there can still be "mechanical" differences. The big one is moment of inertia, measured relative to a pivot point at the wrist. If everything else is the same, a pistol with a higher moment of inertia will be more stable, both to tremors from the shooter, and recoil. With the steel frame of the Benelli, I suspect that may be part of it. In theory, you can increase the moment of inertia of the Pardini with the barrel/recoil weights, but not without affecting the balance.

I equate it with the "Toz effect". Lots of free pistol shooters swear the Toz is a very forgiving pistol, but nobody can say why...

[deadeyedick]

Some pistols are definitely more forgiving than others and I am sure that the answer lies deep within their design parameters . We should consider ourselves lucky when we find such an animal and enjoy it.

[-TT-]

For me, the linear mass of the frame, combined with the less-raked grip angle, make the Benelli a much more natural "point". I find it nearly instinctive to call my shots with it. Quite uncanny, this pistol.

But, it's not for everyone. The inability to mount a red dot to the frame without significant modification or a wraparound mount, is a big one. The Pardini, and others, with their dovetails and active counterweighting, represent quite a different, tweakable, approach. I find I admire the Benelli more, somehow.

[Gwhite]

The older Benellis have a dovetail, and I can attach red dots to both of mine with ease. I use Burris FastFire III sights, with a quick release mount from Slovenia.

In fact, I wish the newer design still retained the dovetail feature.

[Leon]

Leon, Deadeye, and others, are your MP90 comment re: the earlier version, or the later, more recent one with the revised trigger?

The latest one, with the revised trigger, sights , barrel etc...

[-TT-]

The older Benellis have a dovetail, and I can attach red dots to both of mine with ease.

Yes, I know, grumble. Since the thread is about buying a new one it's not much of an option :-(