I'm a newby, and I'm thinking of buying a Walther KK500

[Modena]

No, I am not mad. There's a good reason. I'm left handed, and if it turns out that after a year or so that I do not want to pursue this sport then I can sell the KK500 to any left or right handed shooter and they would just need a right handed grip. Is re-sale a good enough reason to go for a KK500?

I believe the KK300 Alutec and Anatomic are being discontinued, both have vanished from the Walther site within the last week and the importer here in Australia tells me they are being discontinued. I do not know why, or if they are being replaced with something. The Blacktec is not available in a left-handed version. This seems to me to be a huge hole in the Walther range, under $3K for a Blacktec and $7K for a KK500, WTF???

The first shipment of KK500 into Australia is landing in June, the following shipment will be November/December. Cost is approximately AUD$6,900 depending on dealer.

Now I'm sure a lot of you are going to say "buy something more basic" as a starter, but when you consider that I need left-handed, the second hand market is non-existent, so if I have to buy new I would rather have something that I can re-sell in a heartbeat (to a lefty or a righty) than be stuck with something that I can't sell easily.

Thoughts and comments?

[patriot]

Resale is your primary criteria for the rifle you select? There is strong secondary market for an Anschutz and left handed rifles go quickly; in the US anyway. If you buy top end in a small market, the next generation will significantly impact your resale value.

Mark

[Modena]

Resale is your primary criteria for the rifle you select? There is strong secondary market for an Anschutz and left handed rifles go quickly; in the US anyway. If you buy top end in a small market, the next generation will significantly impact your resale value.

Mark

Resale is not the primary criteria. My belief is any of the leading manufacturers at their upper models will be close enough to each other in performance to not matter. Therefore resale does come into it.

My alternative is to go for something cheaper (I was looking at a KK300 or similar FWB/Annie) but then I would need to sell it if/when I want to upgrade to a higher model, this is where being left handed would weigh into it, hence the KK500 option.

[KatoomDownUnder]

Modena,

Before you go and outlay a small fortune on a KK500 one thing you might want to check as a beginner is which is your dominant eye. I say this because if your still relatively new to this sport and haven't outlayed on a flash jacket yet you might find that you think you're a lefty but have a dominant right eye you can learn to shoot right handed. Of cause you may already have this sorted. Either way getting the 500 will be a big buy but in the end if it's not for you you probably won't loose much coin if any at all.

[Cumbrian]

Modena,

Before you go and outlay a small fortune on a KK500 one thing you might want to check as a beginner is which is your dominant eye. I say this because if your still relatively new to this sport and haven't outlayed on a flash jacket yet you might find that you think you're a lefty but have a dominant right eye you can learn to shoot right handed. Of cause you may already have this sorted. Either way getting the 500 will be a big buy but in the end if it's not for you you probably won't loose much coin if any at all.

Now, that really is good advice. I wish I had been told that before I started shooting in my retirement (and that includes shotguns). I am right handed but with a dominant left eye and, worse, more optical defects in my right eye than my left. Even the slight astigmatism in my right eye produces a surprising amount of distortion under the exacting conditions of small bore shooting. Shooting a shotgun with the 'wrong' hand would take a lot of getting used to, because of the movement involved, but I reckon that the static nature of small bore would present less of a challenge, though still not easy, if you needed to switch hands.

[Modena]

Modena,

Before you go and outlay a small fortune on a KK500 one thing you might want to check as a beginner is which is your dominant eye. I say this because if your still relatively new to this sport and haven't outlayed on a flash jacket yet you might find that you think you're a lefty but have a dominant right eye you can learn to shoot right handed. Of cause you may already have this sorted. Either way getting the 500 will be a big buy but in the end if it's not for you you probably won't loose much coin if any at all.

thank you for the advice. I am 99% sure that my left eye is dominant, but I suppose I should get it checked!

[gwsb]

I guess in the land of crazy where no one pays for health care you could go to an eye doctor and he could test for your dominant eye.

However, here where we pay our own bills it is a simple thing to determine.

1. Stare into the distance. Point a finger at an object and close your right eye. If your finger stays on the object you are left eye dominant.

2. Cup your hands together at arms length. Pick an object to look at between your hands and bring them into your face slowly keeping the object between your hands. When your hands get to your face, the eye you are looking at the distant object with is your dominant eye.

American shooting coaches have been doing it this way for decades.

[imac]

Hi there
I've recently bought a KK500 stunning rifle. I'm a lefty and the duel usage of bolt stock setup was just another great feature of this rifle.
If you have the money to buy this rifle you will not regret the investment. It will take you awhile to figure out what all the adjustable bits do but that will be the same with any modern rifle.
How does it shoot.....awesome. We had a trial match this weekend on the NRA A23 target however we shoot this 50 yard target at 50 meters. In prone I shot 400.39 the best I had done with my previous rifle was 400.23. I haven't done any ammo testing as yet just using my old lot of lapua Centre X and some RWS special match both lots shoot very well groups are round and way tighter than previous rifle.

Good luck

[ShootWithStyle]

Where are you located Imac? Just curious.

KK500s are still elusive here in the USA.

[imac]

I got lucky!!!! Managed to purchase the first one landed here number 60 made. I'm in New Zealand.

If you are looking for a new rifle these are worth waiting for, not the silver bullet some maybe looking for but an awful lot of bang for your buck. Shooting wise balance is prefect for me and recoil reaction is very very consistent. I love the look and finish is as good as anything else I've looked at.

[ShootWithStyle]

I got lucky!!!! Managed to purchase the first one landed here number 60 made. I'm in New Zealand.

Congratulations Imac! Getting the first one must be a real treat! You must be the envy of a great many shooters in New Zealand.

[Modena]

Well now I am even more confused about what to do. The dominant eye test shows that I am right-eye dominant (who knew?), but I am left handed.

When you are a kid and people show you something / you learn something for the first time you tend to be shown the way they know how. Consequently for one-handed operations like tennis or swinging a hammer I use my left hand because that's how I would have picked up the bat/device for the first time. For dual-handed bats/clubs like cricket, baseball, golf, I use right-handed, either because that's how I was first shown to stand, or additionally in the case of golf the clubs were right-handed.

I have only ever shot rifles left handed (using right handed bolt actions). For a pistol also my left hand would naturally be trigger hand.

Now that I know I am right-eye dominant I guess this means that I need to train myself to shoot from the right shoulder, a'la right-handed. I'm up for this challenge, and I guess it's a good thing because I have no handedness limitation on what rifle I purchase. I also believe this may be advantageous because my strong arm (left) will be supporting the front of the rifle, and my weak arm (right) will be trigger finger.

Anyway now that I can consider going for a right-handed rifle I am thinking of the KK300 Blacktec. The price delta to a KK500 will be about $5K more and that's a lot.

[Tim S]

For rifle shooting there isn't the same need to aim with the dominant eye as with shotgun. The target doesn't move. So long as the dominant eye is covered (dark blinders appears to work better than the normal translucent), and the vision in the non-dominant eye is good/correctable with a lens, you can shoot from the strong shoulder, and aim with the non-dominant eye. I'm not sure it's an advantage to operate the trigger with the weak hand, wouldn't the dominant hand have better developed fine motor control?Admittedly this is more of a benefit to right handers with a dominant left eye, as there is often a better choice of right-handed rifles.

[Cumbrian]

[quote="Tim S"] So long as the dominant eye is covered (dark blinders appears to work better than the normal translucent)...

Tim,

Is there any study to show this or any theoretical optical reason why this should be so? I believe that the dominant eye should be open and relaxed and deceived into thinking that it is actually seeing normally so as not to affect the shooting eye through the shared facial muscles or some trick of the brain, so I just wonder how a dark colour helps. I have tried black tape on a translucent blinder but it became rather messy and tended to peel off. I could easily be persuaded, however, to try another method.

Roger

[Tim S]

Roger,

I don't know of a formal study, however a number of cross-dominant shooters have reported (on this forum and Stirton) that with translucent blinders they still see the foresight/target clearly enough that it interferes with their aim, but this did not occur with card or dark material.

[Modena]

For rifle shooting there isn't the same need to aim with the dominant eye as with shotgun. The target doesn't move. So long as the dominant eye is covered (dark blinders appears to work better than the normal translucent), and the vision in the non-dominant eye is good/correctable with a lens, you can shoot from the strong shoulder, and aim with the non-dominant eye. I'm not sure it's an advantage to operate the trigger with the weak hand, wouldn't the dominant hand have better developed fine motor control?Admittedly this is more of a benefit to right handers with a dominant left eye, as there is often a better choice of right-handed rifles.

oh man, so this would lead be back to a left handed rifle! AArrggh! I think I will go for a Blacktec KK300 (right-handed only), attempt to shoot from right shoulder, and if it doesnt work out I can always sell the Blacktec and get something lefty.

[Tim S]

[quote="Modena] oh man, so this would lead be back to a left handed rifle! AArrggh! I think I will go for a Blacktec KK300 (right-handed only), attempt to shoot from right shoulder, and if it doesnt work out I can always sell the Blacktec and get something lefty.[/quote]

Would that not be rather expensive in terms of jackets? Unless you can find an ambidextrous jacket, changing from right to left would mean a new jacket, not to mention the glove.

[Modena]

Minor costs compared to the prices of some of these rifles!

[Cumbrian]

Roger,

I don't know of a formal study, however a number of cross-dominant shooters have reported (on this forum and Stirton) that with translucent blinders they still see the foresight/target clearly enough that it interferes with their aim, but this did not occur with card or dark material.

Tim,

That's very useful to know - thank you.

(By the way, what has happened to Justadude and the other stalwart contributors that used to come forward to assist us keen but rather ignorant shooters? You seem to have more of a burden to carry these days.)

[1813benny]

For rifle shooting there isn't the same need to aim with the dominant eye as with shotgun. The target doesn't move. So long as the dominant eye is covered (dark blinders appears to work better than the normal translucent), and the vision in the non-dominant eye is good/correctable with a lens, you can shoot from the strong shoulder, and aim with the non-dominant eye. I'm not sure it's an advantage to operate the trigger with the weak hand, wouldn't the dominant hand have better developed fine motor control?Admittedly this is more of a benefit to right handers with a dominant left eye, as there is often a better choice of right-handed rifles.

oh man, so this would lead be back to a left handed rifle! AArrggh! I think I will go for a Blacktec KK300 (right-handed only), attempt to shoot from right shoulder, and if it doesnt work out I can always sell the Blacktec and get something lefty.

If you go with the kk500 you are safe and can experiment with both options and go with what works best for you. Why mess with the potential of selling and buying another rifle....? Buy once cry once.

As for eye dominance, I agree that it can be overcome with a blinder. Dark or translucent is shooter preference. (Personal experience with this issue!)

Ken