Controlling a shaky hold/pistol choice questions

[trboat]

I am returning to BE after a bit of a break and am facing a old friend- a shaky hold.

Is is recommended that a relative beginner simply focus on sight alignment and trigger release and dismiss bulls?
That is treat live fire as if training to a blank target?

At home I can hold relatively well with good sight alignment but on the range some sort of forcing to bulls is making my hold go to jitters.

Also- I am using a Hamden High Standard Supermatic Citation with the long fluted barrel.
I chose this gun when starting out with some uniformed ideal of greater accuracy with the longer barrel.

Did I inadvertently choose a harder to shoot configuration for a beginner?
I am shooting iron sights.

Thanks all

[Rover]

Your third sentence is the clue. Tension across the shoulders will give you a nice case of the shakes. Relax, man, it's only a game!

Your pistol choice is just fine if your grips fit well.

[trboat]

Relax, man, it's only a game!

Au contraire- becoming the best pistol marksman in the country is serious business.
It's wrecking my nerves...

[dronning]

Relax, man, it's only a game!

Au contraire- becoming the best pistol marksman in the country is serious business.
..........

Agreed! But be serious in training and at the match relax and let your training take over!

- Dave

[mr alexander]

trboat,

Am definitely not a pistol coach by any means. Just another Bullseye shooter. Do consider the following:


1.) How's your caffeine intake? Drink a lot of coffee, tea, Coke, or Pepsi during the course of the day? I enjoy those

beverages myself, but only consume their caffeine-free counterparts. Also, tobacco use does not help either.



2.) Do recall that NO ONE can hold a pistol perfectly steady at arm's length. We all experience some movement while

holding/aiming.



3.) You asked if it was recommended to "simply focus on sight alignment and trigger release and dismiss bulls?"

Absolutely! The shaky hold you think is being experienced may not be as detrimental to good shooting as you think it

is. It may LOOK worse than it really is. Learn to accept what you're seeing while holding on the target.



4.) Been away from the sport for a while? Do try shooting at a blank target. Hang a blank, plain piece of white 8 1/2" x 11"

paper downrange. Using your .22, fire 10 rounds of Slow Fire at it. Hold onto what you think is the APPROXIMATE

center of the paper, without getting too fussy about where the sights seem to be in relation to the entire sheet.

Focus solely on front to rear sight alignment and trigger release. Try doing this with a fresh sheet for both

Timed and Rapid Fire as well. You just may surprise yourself at the groups, despite that shaky hold. Doing this for

a while will give you the confidence needed to accept the hold being experienced. Soon, you'll be able to transition back

to a genuine target. When you are at that point, fire on it in the same manner/mindset as was done with the blank

paper.




5.) Limited range time? Dry fire at home. Don't need or even use a target of any sort. Simply stand 3 to 4 feet away

from a blank wall inside your home. Take aim at it, practicing sight alignment and a smooth trigger release. No need to

over do it; a few minutes a day will be of benefit.


Hope the above will prove to be helpful. Good luck and good shooting!

[Isabel1130]

Everything Mr. Alexander said is correct.


Your hold may not be as bad as you think it is.

Move the gun from your shoulder. A lot of times, I see people move their wrist to try and correct their perception that their hold is shaky. I do this at times. Bad idea.

The longer you hold the worse it gets, and if you inadvertently change your grip as you pull the trigger it pulls the sights out of alighnment confining in your mind that your hold is the problem, when it really isn't.


If the long barrel is making the gun muzzle heavy, it can cause you to drop your wrist before you get the shot off. A lighter, more balanced gun may give you a few more seconds to get the shot off.

But if you focus on keeping your wrist stiff, and moving only your trigger finger, you will soon build up the strength to hold even a slightly muzzle heavy gun....

[izzyjim]

My first comment is that the long flutted barrel, is no more accurate than the 5 inch barrel.
I tested a trophy with a long barrel, and a victor with a short barrel in a ransom rest years ago, and the short ( 5 inch )
victor was slightly more accuate at 50 yards with eley 10x.

I think if you work on building more strength in your arm / shoulder, plus dryfire, your shaky hold will lessen.

I don't think that open sights, or a long barrel will hold you back.

[trboat]

Thank you all for the replies.

I have the Izh 46m as a practice piece for home and will start up again on dry fire practice as well with the HS.

On barrel length-
I was wondering more on the issue of sight radius as it applies to the beginner shooter.
I am not changing out, just curious if this is one of the significant parameters of design which influences how accessible a given platform is for the new shooter.
I choose this as my novice thinking was that a longer sight radius/barrel was inherently more accurate in regards to the shooter gun system- more rifle like..
Mind- this is not a worry- just curious over this aspect of platform design.

The sight radius in this HS Citation with fluted barrel is 10" with actual barrel length of 7.25".

I think at this point just nerves on the line is causing me to toss off the prior training I have.
Struggle to hold, yanking trigger on opportunity windows causing thrown shots to down left.
The trigger is excellent on this HS so I can't fault the pistol.

Time to train a bit..

Edit- I am reviewing prior posts on this subject- good information here in the archives.

[izzyjim]

You are correct. A longer sight radius allows a more precise aim. And the longer barrel will stabilize the bullet more.

However, I know that I will never shoot well enough to notice the difference. I also know that my long barrel Trophy is not keeping me from shooting that well.

Shoot what you have. Focus on fundamentals. You will KNOW if you need a different gun.

[FredB]

Of course the longer barrel has an effect! The longer the sight radius, the more visible movement will be in your hold and alignment - it's simple optics. That doesn't necessarily mean there is more actual movement - just that it is more visible - and that perception can cause you to believe your hold is shakier than it really may be. Your IZH should be great for practice to overcome this issue, since it has a long sight radius and is also nose heavy which will help build up strength.

[Ttgoods]

Get all the books you can, US army pistol manual, Marines, ect all on Amazon for cheap.

The J hillabran is the best one.

Stance and sight alignment should help.

Grip strength important you wobble will ease as your grip strength improves.

Shoulder strength also important 5 or 10 pound dumbells or pushups help with that.

Lastly wobble is to be expected for some reason last weekend I was very unsteady I focused on my trigger pull and still shot ok not my best but it was not a disaster.

[trboat]

Get all the books you can, US army pistol manual, Marines, ect all on Amazon for cheap.

The J hillabran is the best one.

.

I am having trouble finding that author- could you provide full title?

Thanks much

[Isabel1130]

Get all the books you can, US army pistol manual, Marines, ect all on Amazon for cheap.

The J hillabran is the best one.

.

I am having trouble finding that author- could you provide full title?

Thanks much

There are many free articles on this web site. The Army and Marine Corps manuals are what I would call practice workbooks for developing your skills.

http://www.pilkguns.com/pistolcoaching.shtml

[EdStevens]

At home I can hold relatively well with good sight alignment but on the range some sort of forcing to bulls is making my hold go to jitters.

I think this statement is extremely important in determining the most likely issue, which is anticipation. You are anticipating the shot and tensing up and then almost certainly forcing it. You need to learn to break the shot as a mild surprise initially, pressing the trigger straight back with as evenly increasing pressure as you can so that the shot comes as a surprise. "Slow down on the trigger, and if that doesn't work, slow down some more." Do some dry fire shots before the live fire to settle yourself in and until you confirm that you can press the trigger without disturbing the sights and that the "click" of the hammer falling is not being forced. While practicing, if you feel that tension begin to build in anticipation of the shot, stop the shot process. Only allow yourself to press the trigger if you are calm, if you are focused on the front sight, and once you commit to the press, don't hesitate but don't rush.

This, of course, is much easier said than done. Especially for men, who often refuse to admit that they have negative emotions in the first place. :-) I'm not a coach, but been there, done that.

[RandomShotz]

If I'm shooting particularly badly at the range, I will often stop and take a few dry fire shots. I find that the first shots show that I am anticipating and throwing the shots off. After I've made a few good dry fire shots, my shooting is noticeably better when I resume.

Roger

[Isabel1130]

If I'm shooting particularly badly at the range, I will often stop and take a few dry fire shots. I find that the first shots show that I am anticipating and throwing the shots off. After I've made a few good dry fire shots, my shooting is noticeably better when I resume.

Roger

You will see a lot of Master class and high master shooters dry fire continuously through a match.

We all suffer from anticipation to a greater or lesser degree.

Dry firing corrects anticipation, and practices and reaffirms your shot process, when you need it most. Which is during a match.

[trboat]

Thanks all for the comments- I am working on it.

Pity as I have something of a romantics notion of inherent excellence- a native hand eye ability we all posses.
I would like to think of training as stripping away all the barriers we put in the way of preforming a simple task well within our inherent skills.

At home I can hold relatively well with good sight alignment but on the range some sort of forcing to bulls is making my hold go to jitters.

I think this statement is extremely important in determining the most likely issue, which is anticipation. You are anticipating the shot and tensing up and then almost certainly forcing it. You need to learn to break the shot as a mild surprise initially, pressing the trigger straight back with as evenly increasing pressure as you can so that the shot comes as a surprise. "Slow down on the trigger, and if that doesn't work, slow down some more." Do some dry fire shots before the live fire to settle yourself in and until you confirm that you can press the trigger without disturbing the sights and that the "click" of the hammer falling is not being forced. While practicing, if you feel that tension begin to build in anticipation of the shot, stop the shot process. Only allow yourself to press the trigger if you are calm, if you are focused on the front sight, and once you commit to the press, don't hesitate but don't rush.

This, of course, is much easier said than done. Especially for men, who often refuse to admit that they have negative emotions in the first place. :-) I'm not a coach, but been there, done that.

Speaking or "barriers we put in the way"...
Not shy here about admitting emotions- in my case I think just 'nerves' are wrecking havoc with my shooting.

I have taken to just a couple of deep breaths and relaxing my shoulders a bit before I raise and just that has calmed down my shooting a good great deal..

Question:
I looked at the archives and am missing blade and slot width information for iron sights.
I am wondering if I might like to open up the rear a bit with a different rear sight plate for this Citation.

What I have-
10" sight radius
~30" from eye to rear sight blade

Rear sight slot- .11"
Front blade- .125"

I read something along the lines more light around the blade in sight picture as being preferred- mine is quite fine.
Also that apparent blade width should equal the black area of target.

Too early in my practice to fuss with such details?

[Rover]

Nah, sounds good to me. Go for it!

The plan is for the total white on each side of the front blade to equal the width of the blade 50/50. You could figure that amount of white under the bull, too, but don't get too hung up on it.

Your numbers are neat but useless. Just eyeball it.

Also, don't go playing "pocket pool" while trying to shoot.

[trboat]

Your numbers are neat but useless. Just eyeball it.

While I know such practical empiricism works- it offends my machinist and statistical sense.

Once "eyeballed" the result is measurable- and the answer to the question.
I would think that the sport has the maturity to know that a front post of .125" is well paired with a rear slot width of x for a given range of shooters.
No?
Perhaps you mean this is only a important design element for OEM and the end user should just file away till it suits?

I have a machine shop so will mill a new plate or two.
Maybe if a each shooters need is unique- I could quickly fashion a variable rear..
Has the sport changed in the ideal of optimal or did I just by happenstance get a narrow rear sight plate out of the range offered by High Standard?

[Rover]

"I would think that the sport has the maturity to know that a front post of .125" is well paired with a rear slot width of x for a given range of shooters.
No?"

No.

That is why many air pistols (one of the fussiest sports) have adjustable width rear sights and replaceable front ones. I personally have modified all my sights and have done it for others.

I have encountered some who are reluctant to mess with their sights even as they complain about them. Their reasoning?, "I've gotten used to it."

Do a search and you'll find out about my use of a 3/16" chain saw file (is that a common machinist's tool?) to do a "Russian" on a rear sight.