Need advice - New Stock for 1903 or modify?

shooter'sdad · Post by **shooter'sdad** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:09 pm

I’m looking for advice and ideas regarding the Anschutz 1903 M64 in the picture. I am trying to determine if I can change out the butt plate to make this rifle more functional and legal. My daughter shoots this rifle in ISSF/USAS 3P and has done quite well given its limitations. When the butt plate is in the lowest position, the upper projection extends greater than 25mm rearward from a line perpendicular to the axis of the rifle at the most forward point of the butt plate (rule 7.4.5.1). In its current configuration, it is capable of 198s in prone. Although I'd like to replace it, that is just not feasible for a couple years. I figure my options are
1) remove the current butt plate and devise a way to attach an Anschutz hook butt plate 2213-8700 (pictured) or something similar
2) put it in a new 1903 stock with the same butt plate
3) put it in 1907 stock with hook butt plate
4) put it in a 1913 or 1914 stock (both pictured) if this is possible but probably too expensive
I know this is an older model 1903 but has a superb barrel and action for its age and model.

All thoughts and ideas welcome.
Thanks

mtncwru · Post by **mtncwru** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:50 pm

What, exactly, are you trying to correct? Also, what rules are you shooting 3P under? ISSF? NRA? 4H? All of those things will affect responses.

I'm guessing you especially want to get an easier-to-adjust cheekpiece, as I remember the trials and tribulations I had when I was shooting something similar. Here's my take:
1.) You may be able to rig something up, but it's likely to take some creative problem solving (and maybe some woodshop time) on your part.
2.) That could work, as I seem to recall that the newer 1903 stocks have a better cheek adjustment.
3.) Don't think this would work, since a 64 action has a different bolt pattern than a 54 action.
4.) Same problem as above, also price.

You may be able to change out the cheekpiece hardware, too. You may want to contact some of the custom stockmakers around to get ideas, too. Doan Trevor leaps to mind, for one. Can't speak to his prices, but I've seen his work and it's FANTASTIC.

shooter'sdad · Post by **shooter'sdad** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:13 am

I believe I clarified the issue by editing the original post.

mtncwru · Post by **mtncwru** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:28 am

Yup, that makes sense. So, I suspect that you can rig something up with regard to a new buttplate. You'll need a few other parts, including this, as well as one of the carriers linked below the clamp. Again, you may have to get creative in mounting the clamp to the stock, but I've not met too many problems that can't be solved with a sufficient amount of JB Weld and duct tape. Good luck!

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:44 am

I don't think the idea of putting the 1903 barrel in a 1907 or 1914 stock is going to be a cheap option. As far as I'm aware the Match 64 will not fit any stock inlet/bedded for a Match 54 without a lot of work. The Match 64 is smaller in diameter, and the spacing of the bedding bolts is not the same as a Match 54. It could be done. but it would mean complete rebedding, including drilling new bedding bolt holes.

Could you not just take a file or grinder to the existing buttplate until it is legal?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:23 am

Tim S wrote: Could you not just take a file or grinder to the existing buttplate until it is legal?

If the top projection of the butt-plate really does extend more than 25mm rearwards from the top then that too would be my suggestion. It doesn't look that long to me, so if it is then it can only be a small amount to grind off.

Whilst the other anschutz butt-plate illustrated would be an option (i.e. just the plate, you don't need a new stock), most of the pictures show that butt-plate in an illegal configuration.

<edit> Note also the rear of the butt hook ie;

Rob.

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:40 am

Dispite assurances to the contary when this rule was introduced, and the fact they still show that configuration of butt plate in the latest edition to the rules, it is illeagle under ISFF rules when set to either end of the adjustment range, even a long totally flat butt plate with no curvature at all would be against the rules mounted on the curved carrier. When at the ends of adjustmen a flat plate if long enough would be at an angle such the the difference in distance between the bottom and top of the plate was more than 25mm.

If you are really concerned about the curvature of the plate then a better measure would be to measure the difference along the normal to the tangent of the curve at the deepest point. Or even measure from a line drawn from the two rearmost points of the plate and the deepest part of the stock. At least all the old free rifle butt plates out ther would remain leagle when adjusted vertically over the full range. I guess because elite shooters are generally using modern kit, and having support from manufacturers it's not a concern. The grass roots shooters are an irrelavence to them. Although if they are going to continue to have this distain for the grass roots shooter (especially juniors) it remains to be seen wher the new elite ISSF shoters are going to come from. Want to move from domestic rules competetions to the full international rules? Better be ready to replace most of your (most expensive) kit.

Alan

Thedrifter · Post by **Thedrifter** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:25 pm

I know first had what you are going through, and In my Opinion make the modifications needed to get by, but eventually you may need to upgrade rifles to include a more modern and adjustable stock.

MTN and Big Al hit the same points as i am about to but i hope i can still be of help... and wow ChampChoice changed there webpage.

As for modifying the current but plate you should have an end goal like this:

Please note that this but plate modification can still be illegeal if lower than #2, a better solution would be to grind or Mill the surface flat. as Big Al mentioned

For adapting to a newer butt plate setup you could use this adapter (Below) and guide rod that Anchutz produced:

or purchase a guide rod and bolt it to a piece of Aluminum (1/4"; 1/2" makers choice) and cut the aluminum out to the shape of your daughters rifle stock.

As for restocking the rifle in a 1913 or 1914, it cant be done economically, while I do appreciate those rifle stocks and think your on the right track, the 64 action is smaller in diameter then the 54 and the mounting screws are in different locations. I also do believe the 1907 stocks are for the 54 actions too. Their are more modern versions of the 1903 stock; however, finding one separated from the action could be a challenge.

Another option to consider is Master Class Stocks, much like Doan Sith;
http://www.masterclassstocks.com/semiinletted.html

BUT CONSIDER THIS
If you go through the trouble, time and COST to modify a rifle stock to fit the 64 action, if it be the 1913, Doan Sith, or Masterclass stock (None of which are ideas I support) will you again have to go through the trouble and cost? what i am saying is if you spend 500-700 on making due will you get your return?

My Opinion is to wait.
Find the rifle that fits and suits your daughter best, I know that these target rifle with aluminum or more adjustable wood stocks can be purchased for around $2500-3000 used. and if your ready to spend 1300 or more on a stock just save a little more. you could always sell your 64 after you procure the new/used rifle.

And to be competitive in ISSF 3-position you must be capable of quickly changing positions. something not many of the wood stocks can offer.

Hope I helped,
Cameron

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:21 am

Cameron my comment about using a flat plate was that on that old Anschutz carrier it would still be illegal under the current rules unless it was quite short. As you note in your post, with the cut down plate which is quite short and almost flat, you still cannot move it over the full vertical travel.

Anyone who can write a rule to reduce the amount of curvature of an item, that manages to make a flat plate illegal really needs to try harder. I'm sure there used to be a similar reference to depth of curvature of the plate, back in about 1990 when the length/curve rule for hooks was introduced, and the depth was measured along the normal to the tangent at the deepest point of the curve. That is a good rule as it achives the purpouse without making a flat plate illegal.

Alan

shooter'sdad · Post by **shooter'sdad** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:53 pm

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice. My daughter's grandparents decided they didn't want her to shoot with a rifle that I was going to "just make it work" so she has a Walther Anatomic lightweight on the way.
Well now I will have something to dabble in prone shooting with. I think I will just start with grinding the the top portion of the butt plate as shown by Cameron.
Thank again for the suggestions and advice.

PS Anyone need a 46 year old grandson....grandparents are pretty cool :)

mtncwru · Post by **mtncwru** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:18 am

Whoa...those are some AWESOME grandparents. Are they looking to adopt a thirty-year-old grandson anytime soon?

Thedrifter · Post by **Thedrifter** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:28 am

Back down mike,
I seem em first !