I am a little worried I might be doing some damage to myself.
I shoot small bore prone and I have been getting pains in my wrist (Sling Hand). It feels like ligament/tendon pain or something like that. The pain is worst for the first 5-10min fells stiff and painful then it's ok for the next few cards (40+ shots). Normally on my fourth card after about 70shots total the pain comes back very strong. Today the pain was so bad I had to stop and get out of position for a bit, I have never had to stop in the middle of a card before. 3hrs later and my wrist is still hurting a little and feeling funny.
My worry is that the pain although very slight is also now present when I am not shooting several days after shooting.
I am wondering if my wrist is being twisted somehow by the rifle and sling. I have a hand stop that can be offset side to side but I doesn't seem to help much.
Has anyone one here has had this problem, if so what did you do to stop the problem.
Thanks
Henry
Wrist Pain in Prone
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
-
Mike in OZ
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:15 am
- Location: Central Victoria, Australia
A few months after I started shooting I compressed my ulnar nerve in left elbow and wrist (RH shooter). I had become used to it taking 15 minutes for sensation to return after shooting and one night I just over did it - I knew it was bad when my hand was as numb the next morning as it was 15 minutes after shooting. It took about 12 months for full sensation in my little and ring fingers to return. The elbow was due to an unsuitable mat, but the wrist was purely caused by excessive sling tension and having the rifle resting too far into the palm towards my fingers, rather than over the base of the thumb. Doing this kinked my wrist around clockwise when looking from above and brought my knuckles rearwards and closer to the ground.
I now shoot with a cant primarily due to my need to keep my wrist straight. Since the change I have never had numbness that lasts more than a couple of minutes after a string of 30 or more shots.
I tried to find some examples of images online and these are the best I could locate quickly. Compare how straight the wrist looks in the first compared to the second.
The shooter in the second picture has a kink in the wrist which puts more load on the outside of the joint. The shooter in the first appears to have the force more evenly supported.
Hope this sheds some light on what I'm getting at. YMMV.
I now shoot with a cant primarily due to my need to keep my wrist straight. Since the change I have never had numbness that lasts more than a couple of minutes after a string of 30 or more shots.
I tried to find some examples of images online and these are the best I could locate quickly. Compare how straight the wrist looks in the first compared to the second.
The shooter in the second picture has a kink in the wrist which puts more load on the outside of the joint. The shooter in the first appears to have the force more evenly supported.
Hope this sheds some light on what I'm getting at. YMMV.
Hi Mike
Thanks for the reply.
Great photos I think they perfectly explain what I am doing and what I should be doing.
I don't get any numbness in my fingers just the pain in the wrist. I think I need to find a way of getting my hand more in line with the rest of my arm like the first photo you posted. Just not quite sure how to do this yet.
I will have to have a play with handstop and sling. I already thought I had my hand as far under the rifle as possible but I guess there is room for more.
Henry
Thanks for the reply.
Great photos I think they perfectly explain what I am doing and what I should be doing.
I don't get any numbness in my fingers just the pain in the wrist. I think I need to find a way of getting my hand more in line with the rest of my arm like the first photo you posted. Just not quite sure how to do this yet.
I will have to have a play with handstop and sling. I already thought I had my hand as far under the rifle as possible but I guess there is room for more.
Henry
Henry,
Kenny's photos are very useful. The rifle needs to sit on the heel, so the weight is on the arm bones, not on the hand. If you can't straighten your wrist, I wonder if the sling is not too tight. This can kink the wrist.
Another point is where does the sling cross your arm. If the sling lies directly over the wrist knuckle this can be painful. If you look at photos in Mike's post, you'll see that both Mario Knoeggler (top), and John Hammond (bottom) have their slings arranged to avoid the wrist knuckle. Can you alter the lay of the sling so it sits slightly lower?
Also, make sure that the jacket sleeve is smooth under the sling. If there are any folds, this can hurt.
Tim
Kenny's photos are very useful. The rifle needs to sit on the heel, so the weight is on the arm bones, not on the hand. If you can't straighten your wrist, I wonder if the sling is not too tight. This can kink the wrist.
Another point is where does the sling cross your arm. If the sling lies directly over the wrist knuckle this can be painful. If you look at photos in Mike's post, you'll see that both Mario Knoeggler (top), and John Hammond (bottom) have their slings arranged to avoid the wrist knuckle. Can you alter the lay of the sling so it sits slightly lower?
Also, make sure that the jacket sleeve is smooth under the sling. If there are any folds, this can hurt.
Tim
Ken
Photo 1 looks like what I have. Photo 2 is what I would like to have but find it hard to achieve.
Tim
I think you might be right with the sling being too tight, I do like quite a tight position so this might be the reason for not being able to get my hand in the position in Ken's photo 2.
And yes I also suffer with the sling over my wrist knuckle it's always very red but not the worst of my pains at the moment :-)
I am generally very uncomfortable in my wrist and hand area. As well as the wrist pain I also suffer fair bit of pain in the soft flesh part of my hand just below my thumb so I guess going by the above post this means the weight of the rifle is not on the heel of my hand. The rifle weight is all on this fleshy part of my hand and not on the heel/arm bones.
Glad I asked the question to you guys, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Henry
Photo 1 looks like what I have. Photo 2 is what I would like to have but find it hard to achieve.
Tim
I think you might be right with the sling being too tight, I do like quite a tight position so this might be the reason for not being able to get my hand in the position in Ken's photo 2.
And yes I also suffer with the sling over my wrist knuckle it's always very red but not the worst of my pains at the moment :-)
I am generally very uncomfortable in my wrist and hand area. As well as the wrist pain I also suffer fair bit of pain in the soft flesh part of my hand just below my thumb so I guess going by the above post this means the weight of the rifle is not on the heel of my hand. The rifle weight is all on this fleshy part of my hand and not on the heel/arm bones.
Glad I asked the question to you guys, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Henry
Henry,
I think you are on the right track. Reducing the pressure on the wrist should make shooting less painful.
The pain/soreness by your thumb could be caused by the tightness of the sling rather than your hand position. When the sling is too tight it can pull the rifle too hard into the hand; it can also lead to your hand absorbing the recoil rather than your shoulder. A glove that's too thin can produce similar results.
Tim
I think you are on the right track. Reducing the pressure on the wrist should make shooting less painful.
The pain/soreness by your thumb could be caused by the tightness of the sling rather than your hand position. When the sling is too tight it can pull the rifle too hard into the hand; it can also lead to your hand absorbing the recoil rather than your shoulder. A glove that's too thin can produce similar results.
Tim
-
Mike in OZ
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:15 am
- Location: Central Victoria, Australia
Henry, Kenny's pics show perfectly my before and after scenario
I reckon if you loosen the sling way off - 2 or 3 holes at least - then experiment with placement of the stock within the hand before tightening it. Obviously try this in training time! You'll find a happy medium but if the sling is too tight it will only feel worse the more fight to straighten the wrist. And don't worry, you can still achieve a very snug position with this change through fine tuning positions of the hand stop and butt plate.
Of course, write down what you're doing and make an effort to shoot for a few sessions per change to see what's happening. If you're feeling sore and inflamed pack it up to try another day.
I reckon if you loosen the sling way off - 2 or 3 holes at least - then experiment with placement of the stock within the hand before tightening it. Obviously try this in training time! You'll find a happy medium but if the sling is too tight it will only feel worse the more fight to straighten the wrist. And don't worry, you can still achieve a very snug position with this change through fine tuning positions of the hand stop and butt plate.
Of course, write down what you're doing and make an effort to shoot for a few sessions per change to see what's happening. If you're feeling sore and inflamed pack it up to try another day.
I ran into this problem just last week. I have recently switched to a new gun and felt this pain while trying to fine tune my stock. I also like a very tight position and discovered that if you cant the rifle inwards this will force your hand to be straighter without sacrificing too much sling tension. Much more comfortable if you are willing to deal with the extra cant.
I have been experimenting this evening to try and reduce the pain in my wrist. I tried everything I could think of but nothing made any difference. I moved the hand stop, changed sling length lots of times, changed height of sling on jacket but nothing made any difference.
As a final thing to try I put a 10mm thick little block under the heel of my hand and this instantly got rid of the pain. The front of my hand was still touching the stock and hand stop as normal but the heel of my hand was now 10mm off the stock and more in line with my arm.
I still have a slight bend in my wrist looking from above but I can't see how this can be 100% straight due to the sling and the way it goes around the hand/arm. The sling will naturally try and bend the wrist a little am I correct in thinking this??
I think something that isn't helping me is the 1813 rifle Stock is quite wide and I have small hands. If the stock was narrower like a Precise stock I would naturally be able to get a hand position that was more inline with my arm.
Henry
As a final thing to try I put a 10mm thick little block under the heel of my hand and this instantly got rid of the pain. The front of my hand was still touching the stock and hand stop as normal but the heel of my hand was now 10mm off the stock and more in line with my arm.
I still have a slight bend in my wrist looking from above but I can't see how this can be 100% straight due to the sling and the way it goes around the hand/arm. The sling will naturally try and bend the wrist a little am I correct in thinking this??
I think something that isn't helping me is the 1813 rifle Stock is quite wide and I have small hands. If the stock was narrower like a Precise stock I would naturally be able to get a hand position that was more inline with my arm.
Henry
- Attachments
-
-
- 2013-09-04 22.07.00.jpg (47.79 KiB) Viewed 4151 times
-
dontshootcritters
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:24 am
- Location: new zealand
If you are concerned about the stock width and intend to keep the stock then they are able to be cut down width wise.I had the same stock and had a fantastic job done with mine.I also had it tapered up so my hand was closer to the barrel.It made a huge difference to left hand comfort.Tim and the other guys have also made excellent comments.
Don't listen to people who say that is sacrilege.These things are tools and meant to be used as such.It has no benefit to you if it can not be used to its full potential.
All the best.
Don't listen to people who say that is sacrilege.These things are tools and meant to be used as such.It has no benefit to you if it can not be used to its full potential.
All the best.
Henry,
In the photos the sling is clear of the wrist knuckle, and your wrist looks fairly straight. However it looks as if the weight was all on the thumb web, not on the heel. Sometimes with stiff gloves (like your Monard), the hand doesn't bend backwards (this bend is OK), so the weight sits too far forwards. Your fix of a wedge would create contact with the heel, reducing the pressure on your thumb.
As noted above, if the stock feels too wide, make it thinner. You sometimes see Anschutz 1813/11 stocks slimmed down; a shooter named Jim Newby was known for the work some years ago.
T
In the photos the sling is clear of the wrist knuckle, and your wrist looks fairly straight. However it looks as if the weight was all on the thumb web, not on the heel. Sometimes with stiff gloves (like your Monard), the hand doesn't bend backwards (this bend is OK), so the weight sits too far forwards. Your fix of a wedge would create contact with the heel, reducing the pressure on your thumb.
As noted above, if the stock feels too wide, make it thinner. You sometimes see Anschutz 1813/11 stocks slimmed down; a shooter named Jim Newby was known for the work some years ago.
T
I will be changing to a different stock soon which will be much narrower and not as deep. Which means I will be selling this stock soon so I don't want to start changing it really.
Tim
The side on photo is actually with the 10mm block I put under the heel of my hand, you can just see the black block in the photo above the logo on my glove. So the weight is actually on the heel of my hand in that photo even though it doesn't look like it.
The 10mm block really helped with my wrist pain so I think I will maybe make a wedge that is shaped better to my hand so I am comfortable and pain free for now until I get my new stock finished.
I think I have done some damage to my wrist over the last 4 months shooting through the pain. If I can get comfortable with some sort of wedge between the stock and my hand at least I will be able to shoot without pain and give my wrist chance to recover.
I will do some more experimenting.
Tim
The side on photo is actually with the 10mm block I put under the heel of my hand, you can just see the black block in the photo above the logo on my glove. So the weight is actually on the heel of my hand in that photo even though it doesn't look like it.
The 10mm block really helped with my wrist pain so I think I will maybe make a wedge that is shaped better to my hand so I am comfortable and pain free for now until I get my new stock finished.
I think I have done some damage to my wrist over the last 4 months shooting through the pain. If I can get comfortable with some sort of wedge between the stock and my hand at least I will be able to shoot without pain and give my wrist chance to recover.
I will do some more experimenting.
Henry,
sorry, I couldn't see the block in there. I can see why the block would make a difference. It looks as if there is a gap between the heel of your hand and the stock (now filled in by the wedge).
If you look at the photos of Mario Knoeggler and John Hamon you can see that both have the heel of the hand touching the gun, although they have a pretty straight wrist (side-on).
sorry, I couldn't see the block in there. I can see why the block would make a difference. It looks as if there is a gap between the heel of your hand and the stock (now filled in by the wedge).
If you look at the photos of Mario Knoeggler and John Hamon you can see that both have the heel of the hand touching the gun, although they have a pretty straight wrist (side-on).