I am not in favor of keeping a loaded, unlocked firearm within easy reach at all times. My guns are cased, unloaded and relatively inaccessible to me. I was also taught not to point a gun at anyone that I did not want to kill and have preached that to both my children (now adults).
Buy a slide action shotgun if you want an effective self defense weapon and be careful you don't shoot anyone when they come home late from a date. Also be prepared for the emotional consequences of killing someone.
Mike
Using target pistol for self defense ????
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ShootingSight
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I don't want your wallet bad enough that I'm going to let you shoot at me with a .22 while I continue to try and grab it .... so I think a 22 would do an adequate job in an emergency. Might not kill the bad guy, but it sure would provide a powerful incentive to leave.
Can bigger guns do a better job? Sure. Get a .45 target pistol. Also, consider a 12 gage model 870 target shotgun, or a target Glock.
Obvioulsy, a target pistol would not make a good carry gun, so we are talking home defense only.
Can bigger guns do a better job? Sure. Get a .45 target pistol. Also, consider a 12 gage model 870 target shotgun, or a target Glock.
Obvioulsy, a target pistol would not make a good carry gun, so we are talking home defense only.
Home Defense
Joe Biden, Vice President of the United States, has publicly stated that he favors a pump action shotgun for home defense.
As far as I am concerned, that settles the argument. Lets all buy one, if you dont have one already.
As far as I am concerned, that settles the argument. Lets all buy one, if you dont have one already.
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ShootingSight
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Freepistol
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Target guns and what is not really self defense
The first use I can recall of target guns for what might nor might not be called 'self defense' was in the mid 1800s when smaller bore target rifles were applied for military use by riflemen due to their accuracy.
The OSS used the High Standard guns extensively, usually with the integral silencer, but not always due to accuracy. In the 1970s and after, KGB operatives sometimes used the SAKO .32, usually with the bullet reversed in the cartridge case to retain the cyanide better. The SAKO was great for accuracy and used a faster twist rate than most other .32 for accuracy at 50M.
Although not common here, a number of intelligence and covert operations organizations preferred the .22 due to the accuracy. Some use the non-target guns at very close range, others preferred the target guns, both free pistol and semiauto. The Arminius Model 2 and the Hammerli 10x series were particularly popular among the free pistols due to accuracy and, for the Arminius, light weight and reliability. Later, the Steyr and Pfuff were added to that inventory. Among the semi-Autos, the 10 rd capacity ones were favored, such as the Hammerli 208 and 212 (this was before the days of the S models), and also the GSP despite its larger profile. Despite the 5 (or for .32, 6) round capacity, the SAKO had some users due to accuracy.
That's just historical stuff. As to what to use now, some prefer the .22 due to extreme accuracy and low bullet penetration beyond the initial target. Others feel higher bullet energy compensates for poor accuracy, and is preferable. The military data and statistics on bullet effectiveness do not support that latter view, and are the basis for the design of military cartridges since about 1895. Although a few military have opted for very high energy cartridges for specific purposes, even those who did were concerned about the lower accuracy, and adopted these high energy rounds only for very specific uses.
The OSS used the High Standard guns extensively, usually with the integral silencer, but not always due to accuracy. In the 1970s and after, KGB operatives sometimes used the SAKO .32, usually with the bullet reversed in the cartridge case to retain the cyanide better. The SAKO was great for accuracy and used a faster twist rate than most other .32 for accuracy at 50M.
Although not common here, a number of intelligence and covert operations organizations preferred the .22 due to the accuracy. Some use the non-target guns at very close range, others preferred the target guns, both free pistol and semiauto. The Arminius Model 2 and the Hammerli 10x series were particularly popular among the free pistols due to accuracy and, for the Arminius, light weight and reliability. Later, the Steyr and Pfuff were added to that inventory. Among the semi-Autos, the 10 rd capacity ones were favored, such as the Hammerli 208 and 212 (this was before the days of the S models), and also the GSP despite its larger profile. Despite the 5 (or for .32, 6) round capacity, the SAKO had some users due to accuracy.
That's just historical stuff. As to what to use now, some prefer the .22 due to extreme accuracy and low bullet penetration beyond the initial target. Others feel higher bullet energy compensates for poor accuracy, and is preferable. The military data and statistics on bullet effectiveness do not support that latter view, and are the basis for the design of military cartridges since about 1895. Although a few military have opted for very high energy cartridges for specific purposes, even those who did were concerned about the lower accuracy, and adopted these high energy rounds only for very specific uses.
Self Defense
And I saw a movie once, where Bridgete Fonda was using a Hamerli 280.
Hot chicks and Target guns!!!
Hot chicks and Target guns!!!
Brigitte as Nikita
Yes, in the USA remake of the original French film, La Femme Nikita.
.38 etc
The historically accurate comment,
"The .38 WC was used as a self defense round for a while - I think the thinking was that the WC tip delivered more of the energy to the target than a pass-through shot. With target loads, the muzzle energy is going to be lower than in a +P load, but it's still way more energy than a .22 .... "
does reflect the engineering considerations that went into the design of pre-1890 rifles as well as the basis of the .45 cartridge for the army in the 1890s and later. The idea was energy transfer, and the discovery during the Spanish American war, that the .38 did not have enough energy transfer to be of use. The Germans took the oppostie directly with the C96 Mauser and .30 Mauser and Luger cartridges, ultimately going to 9x19 in Germany, and keeping the .30 Mauser but upping the penetration in Russia.
The KGB choice of the .32 rather than the .38 was based on a number of factors, including inability of the .38 to penetrate winter clothing on occasion, but also the greater accuracy of the SAKO and its unavailability in .38.
Since WWII and particularly since 1980, the trend has been to a roughly .22 caliber projectile for both rifle and handgun (including the FN 5.7). The more recent Soviet modification in 5.45, in some ways, may be the optimal solution. The other approach, not as commonly used, is the 7.62 Tokarev with a .22 caliber subcaliber bullet. That allows use of the same gun with two cartridges with very different characteristics.
Overall, the idea of using energy transfer had been abandoned, with emphasis on other factors in bullet and cartridge design. The continued use of the .45 by a few US military units, of course, is an exception to this trend.
"The .38 WC was used as a self defense round for a while - I think the thinking was that the WC tip delivered more of the energy to the target than a pass-through shot. With target loads, the muzzle energy is going to be lower than in a +P load, but it's still way more energy than a .22 .... "
does reflect the engineering considerations that went into the design of pre-1890 rifles as well as the basis of the .45 cartridge for the army in the 1890s and later. The idea was energy transfer, and the discovery during the Spanish American war, that the .38 did not have enough energy transfer to be of use. The Germans took the oppostie directly with the C96 Mauser and .30 Mauser and Luger cartridges, ultimately going to 9x19 in Germany, and keeping the .30 Mauser but upping the penetration in Russia.
The KGB choice of the .32 rather than the .38 was based on a number of factors, including inability of the .38 to penetrate winter clothing on occasion, but also the greater accuracy of the SAKO and its unavailability in .38.
Since WWII and particularly since 1980, the trend has been to a roughly .22 caliber projectile for both rifle and handgun (including the FN 5.7). The more recent Soviet modification in 5.45, in some ways, may be the optimal solution. The other approach, not as commonly used, is the 7.62 Tokarev with a .22 caliber subcaliber bullet. That allows use of the same gun with two cartridges with very different characteristics.
Overall, the idea of using energy transfer had been abandoned, with emphasis on other factors in bullet and cartridge design. The continued use of the .45 by a few US military units, of course, is an exception to this trend.
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jenisons
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22LR head shot would do welL....k9jri wrote:I well placed .22LR will certainly be effective. I know I would rather be missed by a .45 than hit by a .22.
Mike
nEWBIE...
mY PeT....
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Last edited by jenisons on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bridget Fonda
Shooters to the line.
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22
I don't use 22 target pistols for self defense because they don't always go bang when I pull the trigger. They are great for plinking. Rimfire ammo is not as reliable as centerfire. I've shot thousands of rounds from centerfire pistols and have had only 1 hiccup. I wish I could say that with my MARK 111. I seldom carry but when I do I carry a 38 spl revolver. YIOGO
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jamesward
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i love using target pistol, its not a harmful weapon but you can use it for self defense , i like the figure and style this weapon, its fun to have this,
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Fred Allen Collections of bowie knives
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If you use your target pistol in self defense, be prepared to be without it for a few years at worst. The police will take it and put it into their evidence locker and then, eventually, you will get it returned to you after all the long trials and paperwork. I would think that this is enough of a reason to use your Sig or .45. Also, you can buy special ammo, like Hydroshocks, for your centerfire pistol that will not go through walls as easily and injure the person in the room next door.
Joel
Joel