Petition for addressing the root cause of mass shootings

bluetentacle · Post by **bluetentacle** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:57 am

Petitions for gun control are gaining a lot of traction at the moment. Meanwhile, almost no one is talking about the actual root cause of these mass shootings--the nation's woefully inadequate mental health policy. If you agree, make yourself heard by signing this petition: http://wh.gov/R6Yn. In doing so we can help direct the national conversation toward more sensible solutions than gun control. We need 150 signatures to make it publicly visible on the site. Thank you.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:10 am

It might be helpful to let folks know they'll need a 'whitehouse.gov' account and sign in with that before the 'sign petition' button will work, as it says at that site. Don't know if a non-US citizen could even get one of those accounts, and frankly it would seem odd for a Canadian to be signing an online petition which is aimed at US citizens if not downright dishonest, so I won't be seeking out how to sign up for such an account.

But I do certainly, most wholeheartedly agree that mental health care is in a sad state in a lot of places. Our national government and provincial here in BC besides have both been cutting back on spending in that area, as well as in issues around women's safety and daycare and all sorts of needful things. Not a huge surprise that these shifts away from the previously increasing funding for such things has taken place under so-called 'conservative' governments.

bluetentacle · Post by **bluetentacle** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:16 am

Yes, I should have mentioned that this is applicable to US citizens only.

bluetentacle · Post by **bluetentacle** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:34 pm

Here's another one that has better traction. Sign this instead: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... d/kb63nFrz

Bob-Riegl · Post by **Bob-Riegl** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:04 pm

The biggest challenge is that the Psychiatrist, Psychologists etc. are not seriously recognized by the general population. The "Not my Kid" attitude is all too prevalent amongst our population, regardless of race or gender. Our children have been gradually thrown aside and allowed to fend for themselves with all sorts of toys and relatively meaningless activities. The lack of parental focus and their multiple escape methods, relieving themselves from having to deal with their offspring. Though no longer in practice, I have been relegated to the role of an observer. I am in great fear of the results of such violent behavior increasing logarithmically throughout the last two generations. All sorts of shibbolleths are cast about in times like this latest, specially the grand expert of the nanny city Mayor Bloomberg. make more gun laws to add the myriad unenforced gun laws that permeate the world. England and Canada are examples of the hand cuffed everyday citizen and free to do as they will criminals. The honest gun owner is vilified and cast away and the criminal moves freely. Recognize the fact that there are "sick/evil" people in the world and change your laws to put these people out of harms way. The present day Psycho-Therapist is mired in draconian laws that prevent the identification and the need for immediate forms of therapy to be enforced. In the words of the Beedle in early England "The Law Art An Ass." ....."DOC"

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:32 pm

I signed it and im not from the us

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:46 am

Most studies seem to agree that only 10 percent of the seriously mentally ill become violent.
Violent crime has declined for the last 20 years in the US, and mental health professionals don't have any kind of a good track record of predicting which of the mentally ill will become violent.

I don't think the answer in this country to keeping the Second Amendment is evicerating most of the others.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:51 am

This is the root cause. The fact that people will prattle on and on about it, we'll televise the funerals and memorials. Political leaders will talk about it, TV news will have theme music and special graphics. There will be walls of teddy bears and flowers, so people can inject themselves into the event and become part of it. All this stuff only assures there will be others and those that commit them will try out do the last.

Will the President, Congress or the Senate talk about anything you do in your life?

Will the news media cover anything you do 24/7 for a week or more?

Will the country remember you when you die?

Most likely the answer to those questions for most of us is no. Nobel Laureates get a mere 30 seconds on the news. These things can be very attractive to some who thinks they are nothing and will never be anything. Especially in a day and age were people crave celebrity status, hell some are just celebrities for being celebrities. It's the same thing why secret sex tapes get out. Back in the day these people would have killed themselves in the basement, but now "hell if I'm going to die I might as well got out in a blaze of glory a d be remembered for something".

The best thing I did this weekend was turn the cable news off. If you want less of these that might go a long way.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:09 am

America can't provide basic healthcare for its citizens, does anyone think its going to hand out free psychiatric care?

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:19 am

JamesH wrote:America can't provide basic healthcare for its citizens, does anyone think its going to hand out free psychiatric care?

Health care in the US is quite good. Hospitals are mandated to treat anyone on an emergency basis whether they can pay or not. The problem is the cost for these free riders including people in the country illegally has shifted onto those with insurance policies, and the people getting free treatment, in some places are swamping the system.

The issue over here is insurance, and what it should cover, and who pays for it. I have a good friend who was an Austrailian Citizen for fifty years before he became an American. I think he could give you a more fair appraisal of the differences between the two systems.

william · Post by **william** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:23 pm

Hospitals are mandated to treat anyone on an emergency basis whether they can pay or not.

Not true.

Most hospitals are required to treat only those facing imminent death or women in labor. The huge majority of the "free riders" aren't people here illegally. They are mostly American citizens or legal residents who:
Don't have jobs,
Have jobs with no health benefits,
Have inadequate health benefits or prohibitively high co-payments / deductibles.

Our self-imposed 2 (or 3) tier health care non-system is a primary reason that so many other, less wealthy countries have better across the board outcomes.

To get back to the original topic - health care, even the "Cadillac" health care plans provide little or nothing in mental health benefits. Hell, as a nation we can't even provide for all the broken minds of the young people who come back from the wars we send them to.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:55 pm

william wrote:
Hospitals are mandated to treat anyone on an emergency basis whether they can pay or not.
Not true.

Most hospitals are required to treat only those facing imminent death or women in labor. The huge majority of the "free riders" aren't people here illegally. They are mostly American citizens or legal residents who:
Don't have jobs,
Have jobs with no health benefits,
Have inadequate health benefits or prohibitively high co-payments / deductibles.

Our self-imposed 2 (or 3) tier health care non-system is a primary reason that so many other, less wealthy countries have better across the board outcomes.

To get back to the original topic - health care, even the "Cadillac" health care plans provide little or nothing in mental health benefits. Hell, as a nation we can't even provide for all the broken minds of the young people who come back from the wars we send them to.

Any hospital in the US who routinely turned away people needing medical attention for inability to pay, would be sucessfully sued, and either closed down or sold. What the law requires them to do, and what they do to protect themselves from liability are two different things.

Do you have the right in the US, to walk into a hospital and demand a full body ct scan because you have the sniffles?

No, but in most socialized countries, you are probably going to wait six months to get a ct scan for a potential brain tumor.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/ ... -away-3/2/

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:38 pm

Here's a story from a women in the mental health care system

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.ca/2 ... e.html?m=1

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:37 pm

At the end of her painful story, she asks for help from 'God.' Irrelevancies ought to be left out of this discussion in my opinion. Whatever one's personal superstitions (or 'beliefs' if you must), this is a real-world problem, real people died at the hands of a real person with real guns. Prayer isn't going to change anything around the potential for many more such tragedies. When politicians and others speak of a 'time for change' and how we can't keep letting things like this happening (and for myself, I include the mass-slaughter of civilians in war as part of this insanity), they routinely invoke a god of some sort or other.

What about taking direct and complete responsibility for ourselves? We got ourselves into this mess, in large part by not taking personal responsibility for our families, our communities. We must get ourselves out as well, in large part by discussing our whole culture and isolating those elements which have obviously contributed to the corrupted state we're in. I'd put it forward that superstitions have played a large role.

Already some of the parents of these poor children are saying things like 'went to heaven before us.' But they haven't, not really. That's a consolation, a balm for the unutterable pain of losing one's child. But pushing any part of that off onto god, abdicating responsibility as part of the diseased culture which allowed this to happen and taking focus away from contributing towards solutions is irresponsible, delusional... just as this killer and so many others have been delusional. Time for a reality check. And by that I mean facing the issues and forming a plan, not talking to a god about it and waiting for it to get back to us with a burning bush message. Not going to happen.