Ok, guys. This is my first post to the forum, so if I omit any specific conventions, I apologize in advance.
I'm currently a competitive .45 / 9mm bullseye shooter, but looking to augment my skills with some 10m AP competition. Mostly, it's because I need some trigger work, and the AP REALLY brings that out, but it's also because I want to be more versatile within the sport. That being said, I have a couple questions, and I figure I may as well ask the pros. (Took me a while to find you guys, BTW. Thanks to pilkguns!)
What would be a good starter pistol for me? I mean, I have my eyes set on the LP10E, but I don't have $2k+ to sink into a sport I haven't pulled the trigger once in. I'm not looking for a bargain basement AP, but something that I can grow with and stay competitive until I need something a little better, like the LP10E. What can you guys recommend for a good pistol to start out with, keeping in mind that I already have a fair amount of match time, but not a corporate budget?
Thanks a lot, guys and gals! I look forward to seeing some of you on the line.
CF Pistol to 10m AP
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I haven't shot air pistol in decades so I don't have an answer, except what others may also point to, which is that the search function will get you a lot of good posts on this topic. I think you can get a good feel for some non-$2K pistols.
If you happen to be in Southern California, there is an air pistol match sponsored by the Bridge Jr. Shooting Club / USA Shooting on Sept 1, 2012, in La Puente. I'm going to the Free Pistol match the previous weekend at Prado (same match and sponsors, but spanning two weekends), and I won't be at the Air Pistol event. But you might be able to see a bunch of different model pistols in action. I'll let the shooters themselves decide if you can pick up a gun or two, but shooters are generally good about that sort of thing, after the match.
Kel
If you happen to be in Southern California, there is an air pistol match sponsored by the Bridge Jr. Shooting Club / USA Shooting on Sept 1, 2012, in La Puente. I'm going to the Free Pistol match the previous weekend at Prado (same match and sponsors, but spanning two weekends), and I won't be at the Air Pistol event. But you might be able to see a bunch of different model pistols in action. I'll let the shooters themselves decide if you can pick up a gun or two, but shooters are generally good about that sort of thing, after the match.
Kel
I recommend IZH 46(M)
Best bang for your buck is the IZH-46 .... I was(am) a Bullseye shooter(NRA-Exp 1996) I was at the Air Gun Range - Camp Perry 1998 and tried an old FWB cocking lever during their matches. I shot well enough to win a couple of "day match" medals and ended up buying an IZH-46 from Pilk Guns later that summer.
I shot the IZH all winter in my basement and made NRA-Exp in AP the first classification card.
This is no great feet & not a brag story, it just tells you that the IZH is a good starter pistol that you can get competitive & comfortable with before you.
I have since upgraded to more expensive units, but since my practice time is severely limited, I find myself shooting in the averages that I used to when I was using the IZH.
I do not recommend buying a used one since you can't be sure of the seals & consistency being ok. New, I think are under $375 ...
Good Luck. The next one will be a Free Pistol ... :-) you are hooked.
I shot the IZH all winter in my basement and made NRA-Exp in AP the first classification card.
This is no great feet & not a brag story, it just tells you that the IZH is a good starter pistol that you can get competitive & comfortable with before you.
I have since upgraded to more expensive units, but since my practice time is severely limited, I find myself shooting in the averages that I used to when I was using the IZH.
I do not recommend buying a used one since you can't be sure of the seals & consistency being ok. New, I think are under $375 ...
Good Luck. The next one will be a Free Pistol ... :-) you are hooked.
NikNak, to answer your last comment first, I was already hooked... Now I'm just going to let it happen. If I end up with a safe full of sweet pistols because of it, so be it. I mean, it's kinda like the "Too Much Money" song... Well, except with firearms... On a side note, does a High Standard Citation II count as a Free Pistol? If so, is it any good?
I hear a lot about the IZH. I mean A LOT. That's the direction I'm heavily leaning, unless I hit the lottery and can go buy a LP10E without caring about that dough. Chances, anyone? Kel brought up a good point, too, and I think I may attend that match and seek out an IZH. I'll see if I can find a LP10 as well, but I may end up heartbroken when I can't take it home.
Again, thanks... This is why I fell in love with the shooting sports. I may compete against any of you on the line one day, and you know it. Yet, there is no lack of help and assistance in the sport. Everyone is just happy to help each other out.
I hear a lot about the IZH. I mean A LOT. That's the direction I'm heavily leaning, unless I hit the lottery and can go buy a LP10E without caring about that dough. Chances, anyone? Kel brought up a good point, too, and I think I may attend that match and seek out an IZH. I'll see if I can find a LP10 as well, but I may end up heartbroken when I can't take it home.
Again, thanks... This is why I fell in love with the shooting sports. I may compete against any of you on the line one day, and you know it. Yet, there is no lack of help and assistance in the sport. Everyone is just happy to help each other out.
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deadeyedick
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:55 pm
- Location: Australia
I shoot bullseye and just picked up an air pistol to shoot off season. I got a chance to shoot the 30 shot matches and 60 shot match at Camp Perry and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'll be aiming for 10m events shortly.
I picked up a Benelli Kite, which can be found for around $1000. That and the Walther Club are both affordable and practical air pistols in 10m competition.
At Perry I shot the IZH-46 and the Alfa Project, which weren't too pleasing as I shoot Hammerli in NRA Bullseye.
I picked up a Benelli Kite, which can be found for around $1000. That and the Walther Club are both affordable and practical air pistols in 10m competition.
At Perry I shot the IZH-46 and the Alfa Project, which weren't too pleasing as I shoot Hammerli in NRA Bullseye.
Well, cost does pose an issue at some point. I have to actually get into the sport first. I can say that if I can post up respectable scores with a $500 pistol, I can post them up with a $2k pistol as well, I just have to re-learn a couple things. I would say $1k for my first pistol is a little extreme, though the Kite does look pretty nice, and has some good feedback on it.
On a side note, folks, I had an epic win tonight with the wife. The deal goes as such... In the year, I can compete at any time I so desire, and practice at any time I can (so long as it doesn't interfere with my husbandly duties). I just have to give her one week, gun-free, sometime in the fall, and her birthday. (Second of which is waiverable depending on the level of the competition)
I @&$!$*# love my wife...
On a side note, folks, I had an epic win tonight with the wife. The deal goes as such... In the year, I can compete at any time I so desire, and practice at any time I can (so long as it doesn't interfere with my husbandly duties). I just have to give her one week, gun-free, sometime in the fall, and her birthday. (Second of which is waiverable depending on the level of the competition)
I @&$!$*# love my wife...
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RandomShotz
- Posts: 553
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:24 pm
- Location: Lexington, KY
I can second the IZH as a first class starter pistol. Pyramydair has the basic model at just under $500 but you may do better if you shop around. Pyramydair also has an extensive comments section on that pistol which you should read through if you are serious about it:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/IZH_46M_M ... _Pistol/78
There are other single-stroke pneumatics that some of the shooters here swear by, but they are no longer manufactured. They do only occasionally come up on the "Buy-Sell-Trade" forum, so if you're not in too much of a rush you can hang out there.
If you want to step right into a PCP gun, that forum is also a good place to shop, but you will probably have to pony up at least ~$900-1000. Also, PCP's require an air source, so you will have to figure in the cost of a pump or SCUBA cylinder.
The IZH has a lot of proponents - I started with one and would probably still be shooting it if I didn't have the lust for a PCP playpretty. They do not often come up for sale used, so I guess a lot of the people who buy them are quite satisfied.
Good luck, and welcome to the Forum and your new obsession, er, hobby!
Roger
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/IZH_46M_M ... _Pistol/78
There are other single-stroke pneumatics that some of the shooters here swear by, but they are no longer manufactured. They do only occasionally come up on the "Buy-Sell-Trade" forum, so if you're not in too much of a rush you can hang out there.
If you want to step right into a PCP gun, that forum is also a good place to shop, but you will probably have to pony up at least ~$900-1000. Also, PCP's require an air source, so you will have to figure in the cost of a pump or SCUBA cylinder.
The IZH has a lot of proponents - I started with one and would probably still be shooting it if I didn't have the lust for a PCP playpretty. They do not often come up for sale used, so I guess a lot of the people who buy them are quite satisfied.
Good luck, and welcome to the Forum and your new obsession, er, hobby!
Roger
Toss in another that started with the IZH46m and strongly recommends the pistol as a Fantastic "first" AP.
Even after buying an LP10, I kept my IZH and once I get my new grip for it sorted out, I suspect that I'll start training with it more again. Nice to have something that I can take and use anywhere, with no outside accessories needed. Such as camping, my parents place, with my wife when she travels for work, etc...
The biggest issue with the pistol is that it's both heavy, and nose heavy. But it's also capable (in capable hands) of shooting world class level scores. It's an excellent platform to do what you want (trigger work, developing new skills) and once you know what the weaknesses of the pistol are that you wish you could improve on, you'll have the proper foundation to head out and buy a better AP that fits your needs better.
Even after buying an LP10, I kept my IZH and once I get my new grip for it sorted out, I suspect that I'll start training with it more again. Nice to have something that I can take and use anywhere, with no outside accessories needed. Such as camping, my parents place, with my wife when she travels for work, etc...
The biggest issue with the pistol is that it's both heavy, and nose heavy. But it's also capable (in capable hands) of shooting world class level scores. It's an excellent platform to do what you want (trigger work, developing new skills) and once you know what the weaknesses of the pistol are that you wish you could improve on, you'll have the proper foundation to head out and buy a better AP that fits your needs better.
Another option; CO2. There are lots of these floating around since so many drank the PCP Kool-Ade. They can be absolute top quality and cost little if any more than the clunky IZH.
I found them a bit of a problem in a range with no AC here in the desert heat, but your area should not trouble you.
You can find Steyr LP1, Walther, FWB, and Pardini all selling at low prices and CO2 is very cheap and easy to come by, and in some ways better than air.
Both Don Nygord and Pilkington have said very nice things about CO2 guns.
I found them a bit of a problem in a range with no AC here in the desert heat, but your area should not trouble you.
You can find Steyr LP1, Walther, FWB, and Pardini all selling at low prices and CO2 is very cheap and easy to come by, and in some ways better than air.
Both Don Nygord and Pilkington have said very nice things about CO2 guns.
There's nothing wrong with CO2, I know I've found some LP1' s for friends in the $900 range both CO2 and Air. The Lp1 has an excellent trigger many prefer the LP1 trigger over the LP10 trigger.
CO2 doesn't handle extreme changes in temp very well, but few are exposed to that problem, except people who live in the Desert like Rover said.
CO2 doesn't handle extreme changes in temp very well, but few are exposed to that problem, except people who live in the Desert like Rover said.
Hi Richard, I would like to add a bit of info. I live in Corona, California, It is aRichard H wrote:There's nothing wrong with CO2, I know I've found some LP1' s for friends in the $900 range both CO2 and Air. The Lp1 has an excellent trigger many prefer the LP1 trigger over the LP10 trigger.
CO2 doesn't handle extreme changes in temp very well, but few are exposed to that problem, except people who live in the Desert like Rover said.
semi-desert and the summer temps hover in the mid 90s with a few forays that hit 116 degrees.
This is not as hot as Rover's area climate, but I have an LP1-C that I have shot
in 102 degrees, with no significant change in poi. I've also shot the LP1-C in temps
as low as 52 degrees and the pistol still functioned just fine. The truth is, 102 was
too uncomfortable, as was 52 degrees. So I don't shoot in those temperature
extremes anymore. That is when I drag out my FWB mod 100.
This info only relates to my LP1-C, maybe other LP1s are different.
Tony
No that doesn't surprise me, the issue is more in changing temps. So if your gun is in your 80 degree AC car then you go shoot on a 120 degree range you may have issues, until the temp stabilizes.
There's really nothing wrong with CO2, and any issues are really in a very small range of relatively rare conditions.
There's really nothing wrong with CO2, and any issues are really in a very small range of relatively rare conditions.
As others have pointed out there are a lot to chose from. I'd personally look at a second hand compressed air gun, but you may have trouble finding one. To work out which one is the one for you, you need to handle them and ideally shoot it. If you can get to a club and shoot an air pistol, you will at least get a feel for what you do and don't like and be able to apply that to a new gun you only get to pick up in a shop.
I'd suggest you keep your mind open and see what you can get hold of (at a price you can afford) and see if that one suits you.
Rob.
I'd suggest you keep your mind open and see what you can get hold of (at a price you can afford) and see if that one suits you.
Rob.
Wow, thanks for all the input! I will likely be attending that match on the 1st, and talk to some of the shooters as well as just doing a sight count of what's on the line and in my price range. I'll also probably talk to them to see if they either know someone getting out of the sport, or someone that is looking to sell their alternate. If I see something worth snatching up, I'll do it there. Otherwise, I suppose I'll just bide my time. I recently found out I may be going to my shooting "Mecca", so I may find some helpful people out there.
Many on here know I'm very partial to single stroke pneumatic APs.
Therefore, I recommend that you go on the hunt for a Pardini K58. It has the ergonomics, trigger, accuracy, grips, and low cost you're looking for. In this, it's far superior to the clunky IZM46M. A used one costs only a little more than a new IZH.
Another advantage is that it requires no accessories; only a tin of pellets.
The downside? Some of the enfeebled weenies on this site find it difficult to cock. I always recommend multiple 16oz. curls to whip yourself into shape.
Therefore, I recommend that you go on the hunt for a Pardini K58. It has the ergonomics, trigger, accuracy, grips, and low cost you're looking for. In this, it's far superior to the clunky IZM46M. A used one costs only a little more than a new IZH.
Another advantage is that it requires no accessories; only a tin of pellets.
The downside? Some of the enfeebled weenies on this site find it difficult to cock. I always recommend multiple 16oz. curls to whip yourself into shape.
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Re: CF Pistol to 10m AP
md123180 wrote:Ok, guys. This is my first post to the forum, so if I omit any specific conventions, I apologize in advance.
I'm currently a competitive .45 / 9mm bullseye shooter, but looking to augment my skills with some 10m AP competition. Mostly, it's because I need some trigger work, and the AP REALLY brings that out, but it's also because I want to be more versatile within the sport. That being said, I have a couple questions, and I figure I may as well ask the pros. (Took me a while to find you guys, BTW. Thanks to pilkguns!)
What would be a good starter pistol for me? I mean, I have my eyes set on the LP10E, but I don't have $2k+ to sink into a sport I haven't pulled the trigger once in. I'm not looking for a bargain basement AP, but something that I can grow with and stay competitive until I need something a little better, like the LP10E. What can you guys recommend for a good pistol to start out with, keeping in mind that I already have a fair amount of match time, but not a corporate budget?
Thanks a lot, guys and gals! I look forward to seeing some of you on the line.
You see, I totally disagree on one aspect. Good triggering skills are very hard to learn on a light triggered gun like an air pistol. Brian Zins says that AP is almost all hold, no triggering skills required. He advised me to bump up the trigger weight on my air pistol and I learned quite a bit about triggering by doing that. I also dry fire quite a bit.
You might find yourself developing a very bad case of chicken finger from focusing on a light triggered air pistol. I know I did. Want to learn good triggering? Get yourself as LP50 with the heavy bullseye trigger, and practice with it until you can shoot it just as well as a 500g trigger. Then you will know you have developed your triggering skills. Almost all good air pistols are available used, and you don't need a world class AP to hold the ten ring. What you need is a world class hold, and world class mindset. :-)