SP20 not always picking up every round

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:49 pm

Our Club has just purchased three new Hammerli SP20 .22 pistols.
They are all exhibiting the same characteristic of malfunctioning due to not loading each and every round. Any help will be appreciated.
The ammo is CCI SV, and all three pistols are brand new and clean.

dschaller · Post by **dschaller** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:03 pm

Have you tried any other ammo? The most likely problem is that the CCI does not have enough energy to cycle the slide back far enough to allow the next round to be picked up from the magazine.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:11 pm

No we haven't tried other ammo, but we are planning to this week. The only reason for this is that the Importers/distributors requested that we use CCI.
Thanks, and after the test I will reply with the outcome.
It seems strange that all three are doing the same thing, although other shooters seem to have no trouble with CCI.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:19 pm

Have you cleaned & lubricated them? It could be as simple as old lube gumming up the works. They may also just need a little breaking in.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:18 am

Yes G we have. These pistols are only weeks old, and have all refused to continue cycling right from the beginning. The Importers said they were unaware of this problem, so I thought I would ask the wider shooting community as we have another five arriving on Friday. ( three .22's, and two .32's )

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:10 am

From what I hear 'CCI SV' is being made all over the place and badged.

We've had some very dodgy batches.

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:51 am

deadeyedick wrote:Our Club has just purchased three new Hammerli SP20 .22 pistols.
They are all exhibiting the same characteristic of malfunctioning due to not loading each and every round. Any help will be appreciated.
The ammo is CCI SV, and all three pistols are brand new and clean.

This advice I got from professional gunsmith.

The return springs are too strong. You can try weaker springs.

Take calliper and measure spring thickness (two return springs - left and right).

***

Search on ebay new springs - at least the same length. Look at thickness: must be less than original...

Three years ago I ordered three pairs on ebay. Different thickness (but less than original).

Nev C · Post by **Nev C** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:22 am

Check the buffers, they may be set too far forward and stopping the slides cycling fully.

Coastwatcher · Post by **Coastwatcher** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:29 am

I would hesitate to start swapping springs that I bought on E-Bay into new pistols due to possible warranty issues.

Although your dealer has requested you try CCI SV I would try other quality standard velocity target ammo. We use mostly Pardini & Walther pistols at our club and most will function with CCI but others are better with Lapua/SK or Fiocchi.

Try the simple things first.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:16 pm

Thanks everyone. The confusing part is that I have not heard of this being a common issue with SP20 pistols, and yet all of ours have the same disease.
Firstly will be ammo testing on Thursday ( tomorrow ). The buffers on the new guns are not adjustable as we're the earlier ones, so that rules out the buffer.
I will post the ammo test results ASAP.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Perhaps magazine lips?

If anyone has a 'working' SP20 they could measure the separation between the lips at the front and rear and post these dimensions in a reply.

These dimensions can be 'finicky' for some brands of ammunition. A helpful (?) European coach adjusted the lip dimensions on my Morini magazines to suit the Ely ammo that his team was using - the magazines were useless for CCI or Federal until adjusted back.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:48 pm

Spencer wrote:Perhaps magazine lips?

If anyone has a 'working' SP20 they could measure the separation between the lips at the front and rear and post these dimensions in a reply.

These dimensions can be 'finicky' for some brands of ammunition. A helpful (?) European coach adjusted the lip dimensions on my Morini magazines to suit the Ely ammo that his team was using - the magazines were useless for CCI or Federal until adjusted back.

SP20 mags are injection moulded plastic. So, lips can't be adjusted like a metal mag.

My wife had 2 SP20s over the years and both of them ate up just about any ammo without any problems, so something sounds odd with these.

mld · Post by **mld** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:22 pm

I had a feeding issue with my SP20 and discovered one of the magazine springs was too weak; I took the mag apart and stretched the spring a bit to match the one mag that was feeding properly.

That solved the problem with one caviat: The gun still does not like Federal Gold Medal Target 711B.

My normal practice ammo is Federal Champion 714 and I use Lapua Pistol Match. SK Magazine (in the can) works fine as well.

Haven't tried any CCI.

brakarzac · Post by **brakarzac** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:38 pm

I have an SP20 and Eley sport runs perfect and Geco rifle (red box) groupds the best.

I have tried SK Standard Plus, but have some feeding problems... Have tried CCI and the gun did not like that diet at all... Same with Fiocchi, just wouldnt work reliable.

I am now back the Eley Sport and only had 1 malfuntion if 5000+ rounds.

I will have a new SP20 in 4-6 weeks for the wife, so I will be testing ammo again then I guess...

cheers
Brad

Nev C · Post by **Nev C** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:03 am

brakarzac wrote:I have an SP20 and Eley sport runs perfect and Geco rifle (red box) groupds the best.

I have tried SK Standard Plus, but have some feeding problems... Have tried CCI and the gun did not like that diet at all... Same with Fiocchi, just wouldnt work reliable.

I am now back the Eley Sport and only had 1 malfuntion if 5000+ rounds.

I will have a new SP20 in 4-6 weeks for the wife, so I will be testing ammo again then I guess...

cheers
Brad

This is strange, my SP20 is 12 years old And I have never had a feeding problem with different brands. I have used Fiocchi for all my comps over the last few years with no problems. CCI feeds reliably.
It's my Morini CM84E that is the fussy one.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:00 am

Thanks everyone, it is as much a mystery to me as others. My 280 will spit out CCI all day, every day, without a single complaint, but the new SP20's are proving temperamental on the stuff. They both share the same mags as well.
Tomorrow we will test other ammo brands, and I will get back as soon as that is done.
Also, the latest versions have a synthetic non adjustable buffer, whereas the previous ones had an adjustable tensioning screw for softer or harder ammo. Seems a backward step removing this feature.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:53 pm

Hope this works, first time post. With the very cold weather down there this time of year, have you tried putting lighter lube on the C shaped plastic ring and also leaving the pistol and ammo in the sun to warm up

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:22 am

Well, problem has been found. During a trip to the Range today, where six different brands of ammo were tried, the problem existed with all of them.
Our theory was that the slide return springs were too strong, and as another member had a spare pair of Matchguns MG2 slide return springs, we decided to fit them in place of the original Hammerli ones.
The Matchguns springs are about 19mm. shorter, but fitted even though the final pressure lacked a little force. However it was worth a try.
Voila.....the damn thing worked flawlessly, and we finally we got sick of firing lead down Range.
Obviously the shorter springs need to be replaced with ones of a more appropriate length, but after reducing the slide spring force it ate everything we could feed it without a hitch.
An earlier comment by Coastwatcher was closest to the mark. We now have to find more appropriate springs..... could be a batch problem from one of Hammerlis suppliers.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:45 am

deadeyedick wrote:...We now have to find more appropriate springs...

Given our 'sale of goods' legislation in Australia, isn't this for the retailer and importer to work out?
(If necessary) an approach through your state Consumer Affairs department would probably work wonders.

Does the retailer know that this problem has got as far as a widely read international forum?
Does the importer know that this problem has got as far as a widely read international forum?
Does Hammerli/Walther know that this problem has got as far as a widely read international forum?

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:19 am

I don't expect a problem with the Importer/Distributors Spencer, I had informed them this afternoon that I/we were taking the guns to the Range to fiddle, and they asked to be kept informed. I returned home after their business hours, so I will call them in the morning and let them know the results.
This could be as simple as an incorrectly set batch of springs. Whatever the reason it is not the end of the earth, and the guns will be made to operate at very little, if any cost.
I asked the question on this forum knowing the depth of experience....maybe someone else had experienced similar problems. Coastwatcher obviously had.

TargetTalk

SP20 not always picking up every round

SP20 not always picking up every round

Re: SP20 not always picking up every round

Check the buffers

Strange behavior