Lyman electronic trigger gauge

[johny_r]

Anyone uses this tool to check the trigger weight of your pistol? Does it work fine?
What exact setting do you use for the 1000g limit? Is it just slightly above or something like 1100?

Thanks for replies.

[Dr. Jim]

It is useful for determining the range of variation on the trigger - I have not yet met an absolutely consistent trigger, but some can display a quite small range. However, at Classification, it will have to pass on a static dead lift, so keeping the lower limit of the range of variation above the legal requirement is a good move.

Dr Jim

[FredB]

I have not yet met an absolutely consistent trigger
Dr Jim

This brings up an interesting question. How do you know it's the trigger that is inconsistent, and not the gauge itself? Or both? Or the way you're taking the reading?

By the way, I bought an early Lyman electronic gauge and found it very difficult to use: the readings seemed to vary too much.

But again, it's really difficult to tell when gauging a trigger. Even when using a Correx gauge on the electronic trigger of my Morini 84e, the readings vary by 5-10%. Of course it's really of no practical importance, but it's an interesting question (to me at least).

FredB

[John Marchant]

The biggest problem I found when using the Lyman gauge was keeping a consistent rate of increase in trigger pressure as when the rate of increase varies, or possibly stops when trying to judge the exact moment of release, this can then give a compounded reading on the Lyman.
One way that seems to work fairly well is to clamp the pistol and very carefully increase the pressure on the trigger. Still not always consistent. it is best to take several reading and try to find an average value. Not very scientific, but it does give an indication.
I suspect the only proper way would be to clamp the pistol and then use the Lyman clamped in another device with a very fine means of increasing the pressure on the trigger.

[Guest]

Sure, the technique requires some getting used to using the device but I've read some reviews telling it is very accurate when you learn how to use it. and it has the averaging function that is probably very very useful.

[David Levene]

....and it has the averaging function that is probably very very useful.

I'm not sure why that would be useful. Could you please explain.

It would be bad news to have a trigger set so that it only lifted the weight half the time. It would be a fair bet that the first time you got pulled for a post match trigger check you'd get 3 attempts that didn't lift the weight; instant DSQ.

[Guest]

Well, the averaging tells you the average of 10 measurements that is probably very close to reality if you are able to use the tool the right way.

[johny_r]

Thank you all.
Let's modify the question. What do you find more suitable for a sports shooter? Such a tool that tells you (more or less) the actual weight of the trigger, so you can modify and know how much you modified or where you want to return, or a classic 1000g weight that give you only yes/no answer but you can be sure that you lift it in a competition?

Thanks

[Spencer]

Thank you all.
Let's modify the question. What do you find more suitable for a sports shooter? Such a tool that tells you (more or less) the actual weight of the trigger, so you can modify and know how much you modified or where you want to return, or a classic 1000g weight that give you only yes/no answer but you can be sure that you lift it in a competition?

Thanks

The 'classic 1000g weight that give you only yes/no answer' can do much more:
- it give you the yes/no, but also
- by adding additional 'weights' (usually coins of known weights) to the top surface a great deal of flexibility is added to the simple yes/no scenario

[johny_r]

That's a good point. However, I've just looked for the price and it is huuuge. Why the hell? USD 150 for a piece of metal? The Lyman gauge costs less than half of it. I'll probably have to create some DIY weight. Any suggestions or instructions how to do it best? I've already created one made of a coat hanger and a PET bottle but I'd appreciate something more "high-tech" :-)

[David Levene]

I've already created one made of a coat hanger and a PET bottle but I'd appreciate something more "high-tech" :-)

I use an M25 nut and a welding rod. It doesn't get more high-tech than that ;-)

[RandomShotz]

I made a dead lift weight for AP; a pic is here, about half way down the thread:

/viewtopic.php?t=31704&highlight=weight

The hook is made from stainless steel tubing and there is a bit of plastic tubing around the upper horizontal bit. I work at a research lab so that stuff is readily available to me, but the idea is adaptable to other materials.

But as I noted, it is pretty much a go-nogo gauge. It would be a great deal of trouble to make the weights in appropriate increments to get a real trigger weight measuring device. A more versatile tool might be made simply by substituting a cup for the bottom weight (an empty food tin would do) and add lead shot (which everyone has lying around the house, right?) until a break point is reached. That would also duplicate the static dead lift check you'd face at competitions.

For the hook, maybe some threaded rod 1/4" or #10, with the trigger portion wrapped in electrical tape. Drill a hole in the bottom of the can and hold it to the rod with a couple of nuts and washers.

Roger

[Dr. Jim]

Re Trigger variability. As the Classification Officer at several Canadian National Pistol Championships, I have seen an extensive range of triggers, and I can confirm that most vary depending on how they are cocked, whether the barrel is horizontal or vertical when done, and on the inherent design of the trigger itself. Walther triggers are pretty bad as I've seen a lot of GSP triggers that when set "close" will only lift the weight on 2 of 3 tries. Steyr LP2 triggers need to be cocked horizontally - if done vertically, they tend to "roll-off" ie lift the weight and then discharge as soon as clear of the surface.
In my own work at setting up 1911 triggers, a lot depends on the quality of hardening on the hammer and sear, as well as the 3 leaf spring - I figure I'm good if the variation on the Lyman read less than 4 oz. Current Norinco parts are terrible and it is extremely difficult to get any sort of a decent trigger. Unfortunately a lot of my favoured 1911 internals are now under the State Department ban.
The Lyman is useful in doing the work, but the solid weights provide certification.

Dr Jim

[peterz]

I put some tire balancing weights in an empty plastic water bottle, and measured with a digital scale until I was safely (20g) above the threshold for AP. Then I tied the bottle to a length of monofilament line to loop over the trigger.

I wouldn't say it's perfect, and it's certainly ugly, but it does the job.

--pz

[echoindia]

I have used this trigger weight successfully for several years. It is made mainly of a medicine bottle, some #9 birdshot, a length of wire clothes hanger and a dowel. I brought it to my local post office at a quiet time one afternoon and the clerk was nice enough to adjust the weight to 520 grams. It ain’t purdy, but it works.

[GaryN]

I thought the contact to the trigger had to be a blade?
What difference is a blade to a rounded piece of metal, or wood dowel?

I did find out the hard way, that weather conditions also cause a variation in trigger pull. My AP was at 525+ when I set it at home, later in almost 100F heat, it barely qualified. It was set about 65F, so about 35F temp difference. The guy doing the testing guessed that the temp softened the grease and the heat affect other parts of the gun lowering the trigger weight. So he recommended that I set my AP a bit higher. But then again, I was using a crude homemade weight.

Where I can see the Lyman useful is working on an unknown trigger, or a field trigger. Something where the trigger pull is unknown and has to be figured out. And where the actual breaking weight is not as precise as it is for competition. I can envision working on the Daisy x53 trigger being easier w a Lyman guage than with a weight. The weight would be used for final testing that it meets the min regulation weight.

[johny_r]

I guess the part touching the trigger may be either a blade or round and rubber-covered. The rules allow both I think. On my SSP, I have a groove in the middle of the trigger shoe, so the weight fits always in the same point.

Well, I have to get some more sturdy wire to make the weight. The coat hanger wire I am using now isn't stiff enough, so I had to form a loop around the trigger. I add water into a PET bottle standing on a kitchen scale (not sure about the precision) to get the desired weight. The use of shots as weights if a good idea. I'll give it a try.

Thank you all.