JOs - AIR CYLINDER ISSUE

[jhmartin]

Well, it's still an issue at the COS airport.
International teams had to mail their cylinders home as the TSA trogs would not let them go thru.

If you are flying into COS it is not an issue, but leaving it is. Plan to come to the JOs with a mailer to ship your cylinders home

[randy1952]

Well, it's still an issue at the COS airport.
International teams had to mail their cylinders home as the TSA trogs would not let them go thru.

If you are flying into COS it is not an issue, but leaving it is. Plan to come to the JOs with a mailer to ship your cylinders home

Despite the billions of money spent on airport security there hasn't been one case where they have prevented an attack. All the attacks on American Airlines have been prevented by passengers since 9/11.

[Soupy44]

Everyone who is going to JOs, please note this thread from a few weeks back where the NRA does have the ear of TSA at the moment. Share with them how much of an issue this is.

viewtopic.php?t=32800

[randy1952]

Everyone who is going to JOs, please note this thread from a few weeks back where the NRA does have the ear of TSA at the moment. Share with them how much of an issue this is.

viewtopic.php?t=32800

I am not overly optimistic that with the current heads of TSA and this administration that things will change. I say this especially after my conversation with USAS about one of their phone calls to TSA.

USAS tired to contact someone in TSA by phone so that they could discuss the situation and after being passed back and forth between various officials not only within the TSA and other government departments they finally got up to I believe the 2nd highest level within TSA.

The person at TSA said the problem was that their current machines couldn't see through the aluminum tubes. Then the point was brought up that Aluminum bats are still allowed on the planes and at that point the person at USAS was called a wise ass and the head of TSA hung up. TSA's basic attitude at the higher levels was how dare you question our decision. We are the government and we know everything. I think at the lower levels of management some of the officials would actually listen and were willing to come to some agreements. However, they aren't going to risk their jobs by agreeing to something that the higher levels aren't willing to change.

I had conversations with some of the TSA personnel at the COS airport and they told me that they would start allowing cylinders through the airport after they got the new machines that could see through the aluminum cylinders. Well it has been a few years since they got the new machines and they still won't let the cylinders through the airport.

I had a conversation with another TSA person at another airport and he told me that each of the TSA airport managers have the latitude to interpret the rules and regulations stricter the written rules. In other words, each of the TSA managers virtually have the power to make law.

I don't advocate giving up, but as I said before the current heads of TSA are resisting change and with the current administration emphasis on big government this doesn't paint a picture that going to change at this time. The only hope is that they have a come to Jesus moment or that persons are finally put in charge that are willing to listen and make the changes.

[jhmartin]

USAS, NRA and others were fingernail close to having this resolved a short time ago. TSA put them back to square 1.
All of the TSA excuses have been shown to be false, they have been able to see thru the cylinders for years. They are an out of control organization and in a case like this Colorado Springs should hire their own security personnel to do this job (as is allowed).

I think this is so out of hand at COS (and as far as I know, only at COS) that USAS should seriously consider moving events out of the city. Pretty much the only major events held there now is Rocky Mountain and the JOs. Those that know me know I hate to travel all the time back east to Benning, Anniston, & Perry (it's darned expensive for us), but the time has come.

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Again, folks planning on flying out of COS should bring pre-paid shipping materials for their cylinders with them and ship their cylinders home.
=================

[randy1952]

USAS, NRA and others were fingernail close to having this resolved a short time ago. TSA put them back to square 1.
All of the TSA excuses have been shown to be false, they have been able to see thru the cylinders for years. They are an out of control organization and in a case like this Colorado Springs should hire their own security personnel to do this job (as is allowed).

I think this is so out of hand at COS (and as far as I know, only at COS) that USAS should seriously consider moving events out of the city. Pretty much the only major events held there now is Rocky Mountain and the JOs. Those that know me know I hate to travel all the time back east to Benning, Anniston, & Perry (it's darned expensive for us), but the time has come.

=================
Again, folks planning on flying out of COS should bring pre-paid shipping materials for their cylinders with them and ship their cylinders home.
=================

I agree, but missing the experiences for new shooters at the Olympic Training Center can be a loss. For us that have been there multiple times the sparkle & charm can be lost in the politics that occurs at that organization.

[jhmartin]

Randy .... it would break my heart not to have the kids go to the OTC. As you said it is probably one of the largest motivators for the juniors to get there and wander around, and get to see, greet Olympians, not just from shooting, but all the others that are there.

I just was forwarded a new letter that USA Shooting received from the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) and their view is that these are not hazardous materials if they are empty.
Not the FAA needs to pass and approve of this letter and then TSA.

Good news, but I doubt that we'll see changes before the JO's ... but, hey, I been wronger before!
TCU was in town the past weekend, and they had to ship theirs too.
So my suggestion still stands

=================
Again, folks planning on flying out of COS should bring pre-paid shipping materials for their cylinders with them and ship their cylinders home.
=================

[randy1952]

Martin, I support your ideas, but I just can't see USAS moving the match. The main reason would be money. USAS has a limited amount of money and they wouldn't have any money to hold many matches outside of their range and if they start holding the matches at the CMP ranges then their isn't much reason for half the competition department at USAS to exist. The money for the parents who volunteer would also be an issue as that saves the parents money by sleeping in the (for those of us that have had to pay for those dorm rooms they are overpriced, especially when your packed three to a room) dorms and dinning hall.

The other issue about the FAA and TSA approving the cylinders after approval from the material safety department. Don't be surprised to see the TSA thumb their noses at the agency not to speak of the $1 million dollar/machine that TSA justified for each airport which is added to your ticket prices. I hate to be cynical but after working with government agencies for most of my life.

I have found that with a few exceptions (and I hope this is one of those exceptions) the considerations a government agency makes is done mostly on the basis on what favors them instead of the public. They always tell you it is to help the public, but decisions are ultimately made on the basis on how they accumulate more authority and money. They have to throw in some public benefit to sell their programs.