Friday morning moan - advice and help please

The Doctor · Post by **The Doctor** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:12 am

Morning All

Firstly, apologies for the lengthy missive, I have been dwelling on this topic for sometime, I sort of know what I need to do, but it is finding the courage to stand by my decision!

Right, a few months ago I decided to try out an lp10 compact - loved the gun, the balance, the feel of it. Did my first practice 100 with it, and shot consecutive PBs with it (573 and 574). Now, I had it in my head that it wasn't a 'serious' gun because no one at international level used one (don't ask, I am a psychologist by profession so should know better!!) so decided to stick with my long LP10.

I have been struggling with the long ever since - I have some good days and then some really bad days - psychologically I know it isn't the gun, but paradoxically I think how much better I shot with the shorter action. I seemed to have developed a slight muscle tremor that I am not going to put down to the longer pistol, but the balance does seem to be an issue for me, something I didn't experience with the short. Also, my follow through, try as I might, isn't as good with the long.

So, my learned and experienced fellow competitors, my question is am I being a big girl, should I just get on with it and stop whinning like a baby, or think seriously about changing to a short pistol for the upcoming season and see what happens?

I am sure that 90% is psychological, but I do think there is something in the shorter pistol I didn't or can't find with the long.

Many thanks

Lee

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:37 am

Well for starters you are right you should know better ;)

1. The Steyr Compacts are relatively new and were introduced in the last Olympic quadrennial, which could very well explain why you don't see them being used. I do know some are training with them and trying them. Many don't like to change within the quadrennial.

2. I can't see why you think the difference between the two is all in your head. They are physically different, in regards to weight and balance, which are going to be fairly important factors in your shooting.

So if you like the short shoot the short.

I've thought of getting a short barrel, shroud and cylinder to convert my long to try it.

Oh and the Morini short is used a lot at the International level.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:45 am

I remember Don Nygord causing a mini-revolution when he came up with the short barreled FWB65.

Many thought they HAD to have one.

The Doctor · Post by **The Doctor** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:25 am

Rover wrote:I remember Don Nygord causing a mini-revolution when he came up with the short barreled FWB65.

Many thought they HAD to have one.

See normally I would agree Rover and say that may be the only reason I want one is because it is there - but I have to say that the results I have had with the short version were a lot more consistent - I am just trying to justify something before I do it ! Sorry, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me at the moment

Lee

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:41 am

Doc, whenever you even consider agreeing with Rover, you should know better.

Life is short, get the short and enjoy the sport.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:29 am

The short will have a very different balance than the long, and that may just suit you better. That can easily outweigh the "advantages" of a long sight radius. The lighter weight & perceived smaller sight motion can also help.

It clearly seems to work for you. Some of that may just be the "new gun" syndrome where you are paying a little more attention to the fundamentals with it.

There is an old Swiss army proverb: "If the map & the terrain disagree, follow the terrain." From what you said, I'd switch & move on.

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:34 pm

What is the sight radius of the long version you use?
What was the sight radius of the short version you shot well?
If the 2 radii are significantly different, then possibly you were triggering more confidently with the short, due to the apparent stability of its alignment picture (compared with the long). You might want to test this theory by reducing the sight radius of your long version as much as possible to see if your shooting improves with that setup.
IMHO, AP is all about triggering.

FredB

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:24 pm

Change to the short. Forget what's on the international firing line, shoot what works best for you. You may find it was the 'new gun' psychological difference, but you'll only know by giving it a proper try.

Rob.

lastman · Post by **lastman** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:00 pm

Sorry, but I see a different problem here.

You've come up with an idea that you've proven to yourself will work, then you looked at what everyone else is doing and abandoned your solution.

THe sooner you stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and do what you know will work for you, the better.

I haven't seen much of the Lp2 on the international lines, but I've seen a few of the short Morini's

/problem

Good luck

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:39 pm

I believe you are thinking about this far too much. Buy the short and use it.
573 and 574 ! wtf ........I would personally think I had gone to heaven, ( or at least the Olympic Games ) and the money would have been paid to purchase the short before you could say Jack Robinson.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:55 am

I also have the LP 10 (E) Compact and it's great.
BUT - Get this:
I just got the Walther LP400 Carbon Compact,
which is even shorter and it works even better for me!
I am going to get rid of all my " Full size" APs and yes, Don Nygord
caused a revolution when he did shorten the FWB 65 barrel.
One of the most innovative moves that still resonates.
Balance is king - not nose heavy designs.
Move on and enjoy your scores!

Cheers,
Andy

P.S. The current designs of full-size APs do not seem very ergonomic or balanced to me and the evolution of these guns has stalled.
It seems that a few companies corner the market
because nobody wants to invest the money to change the tooling to change the currently working status quo - understandable.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:29 am

The compact used to be a well kept secret, known only to juniors, women and old men, now every one has found out, they ballance better.
Half our club uses them including the current British Air Pistol open Champion.
But if you wish to keep using a pistol you are not so comfortable with then its your choice, feel free to stick with the long beasties.
Good Shooting
Robin

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:04 am

The real good news is that both Steyr's and Morini's can be made into compacts very easily.

The Doctor · Post by **The Doctor** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:27 am

Hi All

Many, many thanks for all the replies - this is why I like this place so much:-)

Right, just to update you all, I decided to put my money (or score) where my mouth is at the weekend and decided to test out a few things - shot two initial comps on Saturday, coming out with 545 and 548 respectively with the long. Then on Sunday I managed to squeak in a detail and tried the short out - not a very scientific test, but I put in a 545 as well; for the final detail of the day I put the long back together once I had settled in and knocked in a 558.

So, with all the pissing about I have been doing, my general findings are yes, the short might be better balanced, but I am still capable of shooting the long and getting a decent score - and I have shot 572 in practice with it. My demons are put to bed, and I am determined to achieve my goal of a 570 in competition by the end of this year. No messing about now, just training and the confidence that I have the right tool for the job.

Thanks again guys, really appreciate the comments :-)

Lee

A74BEDLM · Post by **A74BEDLM** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:46 am

I built a "hybrid" CM162 last night - short barrel and cylinders fitted to a long unit - with no rear sight extension as an experiment. This put my sight radius at about 260mm. This thing was so balanced and stable it inspired confidence - and I think that is the key. The longs look (are perceived or maybe they actually do!) like they are not as steady in terms of sight picture.

I was very happy unfortunately my friend wants his barrel back so I'll be on the look out for my own compact ASAP.

Brian G · Post by **Brian G** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:08 am

Lee

Remember my offer made on Sunday, you could always borrow my Gat! See avatar.

If it is balance you are after why not weight the grips, there is plenty of space inside where the fixing bolt and palm shelf adjuster fit? ;-)

Brian

The Doctor · Post by **The Doctor** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Hi Brian

Again, like I did on Sunday, I will thank you for the kind offer but as I also said on Sunday you know where you can stick your Gat :-)

I have sorted the balance issue out, I just need to train, train, train now

Lee

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:05 am

A74BEDLM wrote:I built a "hybrid" CM162 last night - short barrel and cylinders fitted to a long unit - with no rear sight extension as an experiment. This put my sight radius at about 260mm. This thing was so balanced and stable it inspired confidence - and I think that is the key. The longs look (are perceived or maybe they actually do!) like they are not as steady in terms of sight picture.

I was very happy unfortunately my friend wants his barrel back so I'll be on the look out for my own compact ASAP.

Or just buy a short barrell - probably much cheaper than a new gun.

My demons are put to bed, and I am determined to achieve my goal of a 570 in competition by the end of this year. No messing about now, just training and the confidence that I have the right tool for the job.

Lee - remember to set process rather than performance goals, get that right and the score will naturally follow.

Rob.

A74BEDLM · Post by **A74BEDLM** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:28 am

Unfortunately Air Guns classified as Firearms here and you need another permit to purchase spare or replacement barrels. This is a loaner pistol but a friend hopefully selling his compact 162 soon so trying to snap that up when I get my Firearm Permit Variation.

kevinweiho · Post by **kevinweiho** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:43 pm

The Doctor wrote

Now, I had it in my head that it wasn't a 'serious' gun because no one at international level used one (don't ask, I am a psychologist by profession so should know better!!) so decided to stick with my long LP10.

Doc, in the ISSF WC 2011, Kai Jahnsson of Finland used a short LP10E to compete...

I have a long LP10 and a FWB P34 short and I find the FWB to be more 'comfortable'.

TargetTalk

Friday morning moan - advice and help please

Friday morning moan - advice and help please

sight radius

Very compact pistol.