I have a used SP that I've been using for the last few seasons. I left the trigger alone all this time. Now that I'm averaging better than 270 in my gallery matches, I feel it's time to tune the trigger to something I'd like more. Lighter is most important, it's over 3 lbs. So I look up all I can find on the web, but I'm really surprised to find that my pistol doesn't seem to match any of the diagrams or descriptions I can find. It simply does NOT have the PP screw accessed from the top of the slide. Doesn't exist, there is no screw or hole in front of the rear sight.
My pistol is marked as imported by Nygord. It has a catalog number of 6936. The serial number is B37xx. Can anyone help me with what model of SP this is and some help at adjusting the trigger?
Thanks,
Jab
Really old Pardini SP?
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Hi Greg,Greg Derr wrote:It's a second model, I have diagrams in my shop for adjustment.
Should have known you'll be here as well as NES. Could you post the diagrams? I want to adj the trigger before the AMU classes.
By second, you don't mean SP New do you? Because the manuals for that model describe a PP screw that mine does not have. I can adjust the outside screw CS to adj pull weight, I think that means my trigger is set up as a single stage. But I'm not sure...
Merry Christmas,
Jab (Chuck on NES)
The manual I've found that is most like my pistol is http://www.pardini.it/manuali/manual%20till%202004.pdf. Page 24 shows an L shape trigger like mine and doesn't show any thing like PP on the slide. But the trigger group explanation on page 19 shows PP screw and a different shape trigger.
I snapped some shots of the trigger group and the PP-less slide if this can help someone explain this model of Pardini to me.
thanks,
Jab
thanks,
Jab
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- Bottom.JPG (29.25 KiB) Viewed 6489 times
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- Left Side.JPG (35.04 KiB) Viewed 6489 times
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Coastwatcher
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:06 pm
SP/HP Trigger Adjustment
ADJUSTING THE PARDINI SP/HP TRIGGER
This pistol is designed to have a two stage pull and most shooters who take the time to get acquainted with a two stage system end up liking it and doing better than with the American "High Standard/Model 41 " trigger. To use a two stage pull, you pull through or "take up" the longer "1st stage" quickly to where you feel the sudden increase in resistance which is the onset of the "2nd stage" which is short and crisp. As the 2nd stage is "squeezed" through more slowly, the gun fires. The take up of the 1st stage is automatic on recoil during timed and rapid fire and becomes hardly noticeable in a very short time.
OK. Lets take the Owners manual in hand and open it up to the middle of the book where it shows the trigger mechanism and the instructions on adjustment. As we will be doing lots of "dry-firing" be sure the dry fire plug is in the chamber of the pistol on the SP (not really necessary for the HP.) We need to start with screw "CP" which accessible only after taking the grip from the gun.
The SP trigger Assembly
1. Back out screw "CP" counterclockwise about 2 turns.
2. Back out strews "PG" and "TS" counterclockwise about 2 turns. At this point you should have play between the trigger bar/dis-connector and the sear and you should have plenty of sear engagement with the hammer. You may or may not have two stages to the trigger pull.
3. Back out "PS" counterclockwise about 2 turns. Back out "CS" a couple of turns. Now you should have a long continuous creepy pull with lots of "free-play" or take-up. At this point, while the trigger pull is like that of a double action revolver, you will at least have a "safe" gun. Now lets refine:
4. Turn "CS" in clockwise until you feel the "2nd stage" appear about at the end of the pull. (You will have contacted the spring loaded ball bearing inside "CS". The load on this ban is determined by "PS".) You can fine tune the length of this "2nd stage" by tiny adjustments in "CS" until you get the kind of feel you like. Most shooters want this to be "crisp" or in other words a short 2nd stage (the part you squeeze off at the end of the pull).
5. Now there are two parts to the "front" part of the pull. or "1st stage" . The initial part is the taking up of the gap between the trigger bar and the ear of the sear - this is usually called the "free play" The other part is the real "1st stage" and in this pistol design you are sliding the sear almost all the way out of the hammer notch during this stage. YOU MUST HAVE SOME OF THIS "1st STAGE"!! The most common error in trying to customize the feel of the trigger on this gun is to "dial out" all the 1st stage and make the trigger like a Model 41. This is what makes the gun "double" and not hold. etc. We control this amount of sear engagement and thus the "1st stage" with screw "CP". So, now:
6. Turn in screw "CP" so you have some definite 1st stage travel (after the free play take-up). Leave as much of this travel in as you can tolerate. At the end of this 1st stage travel and before the hammer falls you will contact the spring loaded ball bearing and be at the 2nd stage which is short and crisp. If not, go back to 3 and 4 and play around until you do.
7. Now turn in screw "PG" to adjust the free play or take-up. Make sure that the trigger bar will go up into position after the gun is cycled and the trigger released and then leave just a tiny bit more for reliability.
8. Now we are ready to adjust the weight of the total pull. This is to be 2 lbs. for NRA rules and 1000 grams for UIT rules (2 l/4Ibs). The weight of the 1st stage is controlled by the sear spring (which is essentially non adjustable) and by screw "PP". The weight of the 2nd stage is controlled by screw "PS" which is inside "CS". The total weight is usually divided up equally between the 1st stage and the 2nd stage. This makes the pull "self-calibrating". When you are in a match, the arousal level often creates deceptive sensory input and one day the trigger will feel very heavy and another day very light. With this kind of set-up at least you know that when you take up the 1st stage you have applied 1/2 the required pressure. This can be very comforting in a major match where you don't want to be too conservative on the trigger and lose time and yet also don't want to "shoot a snake in the nose" while at the 45 degree ready position. So, turn the appropriate screws the appropriate amount until you get the balance of weights on 1st and 2nd stage you prefer.
9. Finally, lets adjust the over-travel of the trigger after the hammer falls. This is done with screw "TS". Turn it in until you have the amount of over-travel you prefer (you have to leave some, you know!)
This information was gleaned from information provided by the late Don Nygord - as posted on TargetTalk.
ADJUSTING THE PARDINI SP/HP TRIGGER
This pistol is designed to have a two stage pull and most shooters who take the time to get acquainted with a two stage system end up liking it and doing better than with the American "High Standard/Model 41 " trigger. To use a two stage pull, you pull through or "take up" the longer "1st stage" quickly to where you feel the sudden increase in resistance which is the onset of the "2nd stage" which is short and crisp. As the 2nd stage is "squeezed" through more slowly, the gun fires. The take up of the 1st stage is automatic on recoil during timed and rapid fire and becomes hardly noticeable in a very short time.
OK. Lets take the Owners manual in hand and open it up to the middle of the book where it shows the trigger mechanism and the instructions on adjustment. As we will be doing lots of "dry-firing" be sure the dry fire plug is in the chamber of the pistol on the SP (not really necessary for the HP.) We need to start with screw "CP" which accessible only after taking the grip from the gun.
The SP trigger Assembly
1. Back out screw "CP" counterclockwise about 2 turns.
2. Back out strews "PG" and "TS" counterclockwise about 2 turns. At this point you should have play between the trigger bar/dis-connector and the sear and you should have plenty of sear engagement with the hammer. You may or may not have two stages to the trigger pull.
3. Back out "PS" counterclockwise about 2 turns. Back out "CS" a couple of turns. Now you should have a long continuous creepy pull with lots of "free-play" or take-up. At this point, while the trigger pull is like that of a double action revolver, you will at least have a "safe" gun. Now lets refine:
4. Turn "CS" in clockwise until you feel the "2nd stage" appear about at the end of the pull. (You will have contacted the spring loaded ball bearing inside "CS". The load on this ban is determined by "PS".) You can fine tune the length of this "2nd stage" by tiny adjustments in "CS" until you get the kind of feel you like. Most shooters want this to be "crisp" or in other words a short 2nd stage (the part you squeeze off at the end of the pull).
5. Now there are two parts to the "front" part of the pull. or "1st stage" . The initial part is the taking up of the gap between the trigger bar and the ear of the sear - this is usually called the "free play" The other part is the real "1st stage" and in this pistol design you are sliding the sear almost all the way out of the hammer notch during this stage. YOU MUST HAVE SOME OF THIS "1st STAGE"!! The most common error in trying to customize the feel of the trigger on this gun is to "dial out" all the 1st stage and make the trigger like a Model 41. This is what makes the gun "double" and not hold. etc. We control this amount of sear engagement and thus the "1st stage" with screw "CP". So, now:
6. Turn in screw "CP" so you have some definite 1st stage travel (after the free play take-up). Leave as much of this travel in as you can tolerate. At the end of this 1st stage travel and before the hammer falls you will contact the spring loaded ball bearing and be at the 2nd stage which is short and crisp. If not, go back to 3 and 4 and play around until you do.
7. Now turn in screw "PG" to adjust the free play or take-up. Make sure that the trigger bar will go up into position after the gun is cycled and the trigger released and then leave just a tiny bit more for reliability.
8. Now we are ready to adjust the weight of the total pull. This is to be 2 lbs. for NRA rules and 1000 grams for UIT rules (2 l/4Ibs). The weight of the 1st stage is controlled by the sear spring (which is essentially non adjustable) and by screw "PP". The weight of the 2nd stage is controlled by screw "PS" which is inside "CS". The total weight is usually divided up equally between the 1st stage and the 2nd stage. This makes the pull "self-calibrating". When you are in a match, the arousal level often creates deceptive sensory input and one day the trigger will feel very heavy and another day very light. With this kind of set-up at least you know that when you take up the 1st stage you have applied 1/2 the required pressure. This can be very comforting in a major match where you don't want to be too conservative on the trigger and lose time and yet also don't want to "shoot a snake in the nose" while at the 45 degree ready position. So, turn the appropriate screws the appropriate amount until you get the balance of weights on 1st and 2nd stage you prefer.
9. Finally, lets adjust the over-travel of the trigger after the hammer falls. This is done with screw "TS". Turn it in until you have the amount of over-travel you prefer (you have to leave some, you know!)
This information was gleaned from information provided by the late Don Nygord - as posted on TargetTalk.
I appreciate it Coastwatcher, but I have Don's notes. The issue is that they do not match my pistol. I do not have the PP screw to adjust the 1st stage weight. Unless its under the sight, but every description I've seen says its in front of the sight, not under it. I've not taken the sight off because I'm not sure how and don't want to fuss with it if I don't have too.
-= Jab
-= Jab
-
Coastwatcher
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:06 pm
I sold my older model SP a while back and sent the manual with it. On the older model the adjustment was down in the trigger group not on the top of the frame like the new one. I am looking for a drawing. Will get back to you.
Rgds. CW
http://www.pardini.it/manuali/pardini%2 ... %20sp.pdf
Rgds. CW
http://www.pardini.it/manuali/pardini%2 ... %20sp.pdf
Last edited by Coastwatcher on Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
Coastwatcher
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:06 pm
I sold my older model SP a while back and sent the manual with it. On the older model the adjustment was down in the trigger group not on the top of the frame like the new one. I am looking for a drawing. Will get back to you.
Rgds. CW
http://www.pardini.it/manuali/pardini%2 ... p%20sp.pdf[/url]
This version of the manual is older and has the diagram you want.
Rgds. CW
http://www.pardini.it/manuali/pardini%2 ... p%20sp.pdf[/url]
This version of the manual is older and has the diagram you want.
I can't see clearly, but in the rear jpeg view it seems that a threaded screw with a spring inside is coming down from the top (adjacent to the green buffer) - this is screw pp. It may be that the access to that screw is under the rear sight, I know on later models that it is very close to the edge of the rear sight.
I can't see clearly, but in the rear jpeg view it seems that a threaded screw with a spring inside is coming down from the top (adjacent to the green buffer) - this is screw pp. It may be that the access to that screw is under the rear sight, I know on later models that it is very close to the edge of the rear sight.
Conclusion
Coastwatcher posted the link to the right manual for my pistol, and as John J said, the PP screw for my model is on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger.
I now have a 2 stage trigger. Part of the problem of even being able to tell originally was that I can't get the 1st stage below 1 lb 10 ounces! Even when I completely remove the PP screw! Guess that's the sear spring you can't do anything about.
I also had fairly sticky ball bearing under the PS. Backed out CS all the way, cleaned and put a spot of grease on the ball. Wiped off all visible grease by "writing" with the ball like a ball-point pen. Smoother now.
End result is minimum free-play, 1 lb 10 ounce 1st stage and 2 lb 2 ounce break for the 2nd stage. Would prefer a little more difference btw the stages but that's the best I can manage and keep 2nd stage as light as legally possible.
Here's to 10s and Xs!
Happy New Year,
Jab
I now have a 2 stage trigger. Part of the problem of even being able to tell originally was that I can't get the 1st stage below 1 lb 10 ounces! Even when I completely remove the PP screw! Guess that's the sear spring you can't do anything about.
I also had fairly sticky ball bearing under the PS. Backed out CS all the way, cleaned and put a spot of grease on the ball. Wiped off all visible grease by "writing" with the ball like a ball-point pen. Smoother now.
End result is minimum free-play, 1 lb 10 ounce 1st stage and 2 lb 2 ounce break for the 2nd stage. Would prefer a little more difference btw the stages but that's the best I can manage and keep 2nd stage as light as legally possible.
Here's to 10s and Xs!
Happy New Year,
Jab
-
David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Re: Conclusion
Slightly confused by your description. Are you saying that the trigger breaks with a total loading of 2lb 2oz.jabberwo wrote:End result is minimum free-play, 1 lb 10 ounce 1st stage and 2 lb 2 ounce break for the 2nd stage. Would prefer a little more difference btw the stages but that's the best I can manage and keep 2nd stage as light as legally possible.
If so then that is only .964kg: under the 1kg ISSF minimum and certainly less than would be sensible to turn up at a competition with.
Hi,
Just in case someone finds this thread and has similar issue with first stage being too strong -- I knocked out the pin holding the sear and its V shaped spring and pressed the spring together a LOT to lower its "strength". Put it back in. Gun didn't dry fire. Took it back out, pressed it out a little to make it stronger, and now have a nice 1lb first stage on my backup Pardini.
Ya, backup. Got a brand spanking new one that Email at Pardini USA set up with a rolling trigger, can't wait to try that out after it arrives tomorrow!
cheers,
Jab
Just in case someone finds this thread and has similar issue with first stage being too strong -- I knocked out the pin holding the sear and its V shaped spring and pressed the spring together a LOT to lower its "strength". Put it back in. Gun didn't dry fire. Took it back out, pressed it out a little to make it stronger, and now have a nice 1lb first stage on my backup Pardini.
Ya, backup. Got a brand spanking new one that Email at Pardini USA set up with a rolling trigger, can't wait to try that out after it arrives tomorrow!
cheers,
Jab