Probably a dumb question, but...
Is there any difference between the CCI-SV in the 100 round plastic boxes and the CCI-SV in the 50 round cardboard boxes?
I seem to recollect someone posting that they aren't neccesarily the same since CCI became part of Federal.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Has anyone noticed any differences?
CCI-SV
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CCI SV
According to CCI, they are one and the same. The cardboard box were originally packaged that way for export. Several years ago Federal did produce some for .22 ammunition CCI. The Federal was distinguished by having white plastic trays with legs as opposed to clear plastic trays with no legs for the CCI. The Federal ammunition also had a light gray bullet with a 'dryer' wax as opposed to the CCI's very dark gray bullet. The format of the lot numbers was different as well. The Federal stuff should be well out of the supply system by now.
Some people did report a difference between the 100 round plastic box and the cardboard box but this could be attributed to different lots. I have both and have noticed no difference other than maybe the amount of wax on the bullets, again attributable to different lots. For me, accuracy and reliability have been the same between the plastic and cardboard. The cardboard can usually be found cheaper by at least $1 or so per 100 rounds.
This was discussed at length some time back over on Rimfire Central and included the email replies from CCI.
Steve
Some people did report a difference between the 100 round plastic box and the cardboard box but this could be attributed to different lots. I have both and have noticed no difference other than maybe the amount of wax on the bullets, again attributable to different lots. For me, accuracy and reliability have been the same between the plastic and cardboard. The cardboard can usually be found cheaper by at least $1 or so per 100 rounds.
This was discussed at length some time back over on Rimfire Central and included the email replies from CCI.
Steve
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Guest
CCI Plastic - paper
Ok! Here is what a couple of us at the range found in the last few weeks of going over this subject that has raged on for several years. The new paper box CCI that comes in the dark blue CCI bricks marked #0035. Is "NOT" ( IN OUR OPINION ) the same as CCI in the 100 round plastic boxes. First the bullet was examined under a microscope and no difference could be seen and the case is the same. But when the powder was examined in the #0035 against the powder in the #0032. It is entirely different. We checked #0032 from specimens going back several years to be sure it was the same in the #0032. Which it was. Plus, I tried to try find #0035 listed on CCI's web site and couldn't find it.
The powder in the #0035 was compared with other Federal 22's at the range and the powder matched a couple that we compared it with. Now this isn't a scientific test by any means. But it does show it isn't the exact same load. This also doesn't mean it isn't good ammunition. It just proves that it isn't exactly the same. Our assumption is that as CCI and Federal are owned by the same group. That Maybe the Federal factory is using CCI brass and suppling their own powder and duplicating the CCI bullet or using the CCI bullet? (as the bullet looks the same in both loads). It could be presumed that CCI might be supplying the bullet and brass???? Somewhat like Eley and Agulia (spelling).
Now years ago it was true that paper box and plastic box was the exact same 22's. The paper box was used by the majority of the Bullseye shooters. Then about five or so years ago a whole bunch of us Bullseye shooters got taken to the farm when a well known gun shop had a sale on CCI in cardboard boxes and everyone jumped on the the deal and stocked up. Thinking that this was the same #0032 that we had been using. After receiving the ammo it was found that the bullet was indeed a different color and I believe a different number of lube rings and had more wax and the load number had changed from #0032 to #0035. This is what started the several year long discussion on paper versus plastic. The bullseye group called Federal and the supplier and CCI, and where informed that it was indeed the same stuff and it was in paper because the European market required and requested less plastic in trying to be Greener. And this was a large order distend for Europe and it had been cancelled thus the sale price. Well most of us knew this was not the exact same 22's we had been getting.
Just last month I wrote to a well known supplier to the target shooting community and asked them flat outright please clear this matter up once and for all. Is the CCI paper box ammo that is listed in their catalog as #0035 the same as #0032! And the only difference in price was due to the savings achieved from the plastic packaging versus the paper packaging? As to date not even a courtesy response.
I have shot both #0035 and #0032 at 25 yards and it seems they both shoot as well for that distance and I have not tried it at 50 yards. But! That isn't the point at all, if it shoots as well or not. The lack of just coming out with an explanation as to the differences that are apparent over time escapes me. Especially something that has been going on in numerous forums for at least four years or more. CCI and Federal have been bombarded over the years with this question and have responded with the same story that it is the same ammunition. What could it hurt to just say it is a different loading? Ether use it and save so money or pay the difference and get the original #0032?
So, to recap. The first plastic and paper were the same. Then there was the era of the plastic and paper where the bullet was a different color and was more waxy and was explained as export to Europe, as an over run ,or someone cancelled a big order in Europe. Then we throw in the white plastic tray with legs versus the clear plastic separator tells if Federal made it or CCI, plus the lot number differences. Now, we have what seems to be the same case and bullet but a different powder. The answer to this I guess is going to be closely held by the manufactures which they are entitled to. In the scheme of things. The new #0035 seems to shoot as well as the #0032 So I guess you could say it is a lot of hoopla about nothing.
I just thought I would give you readers my experiences about this subject thru the years. Your experiences and information maybe different.
The powder in the #0035 was compared with other Federal 22's at the range and the powder matched a couple that we compared it with. Now this isn't a scientific test by any means. But it does show it isn't the exact same load. This also doesn't mean it isn't good ammunition. It just proves that it isn't exactly the same. Our assumption is that as CCI and Federal are owned by the same group. That Maybe the Federal factory is using CCI brass and suppling their own powder and duplicating the CCI bullet or using the CCI bullet? (as the bullet looks the same in both loads). It could be presumed that CCI might be supplying the bullet and brass???? Somewhat like Eley and Agulia (spelling).
Now years ago it was true that paper box and plastic box was the exact same 22's. The paper box was used by the majority of the Bullseye shooters. Then about five or so years ago a whole bunch of us Bullseye shooters got taken to the farm when a well known gun shop had a sale on CCI in cardboard boxes and everyone jumped on the the deal and stocked up. Thinking that this was the same #0032 that we had been using. After receiving the ammo it was found that the bullet was indeed a different color and I believe a different number of lube rings and had more wax and the load number had changed from #0032 to #0035. This is what started the several year long discussion on paper versus plastic. The bullseye group called Federal and the supplier and CCI, and where informed that it was indeed the same stuff and it was in paper because the European market required and requested less plastic in trying to be Greener. And this was a large order distend for Europe and it had been cancelled thus the sale price. Well most of us knew this was not the exact same 22's we had been getting.
Just last month I wrote to a well known supplier to the target shooting community and asked them flat outright please clear this matter up once and for all. Is the CCI paper box ammo that is listed in their catalog as #0035 the same as #0032! And the only difference in price was due to the savings achieved from the plastic packaging versus the paper packaging? As to date not even a courtesy response.
I have shot both #0035 and #0032 at 25 yards and it seems they both shoot as well for that distance and I have not tried it at 50 yards. But! That isn't the point at all, if it shoots as well or not. The lack of just coming out with an explanation as to the differences that are apparent over time escapes me. Especially something that has been going on in numerous forums for at least four years or more. CCI and Federal have been bombarded over the years with this question and have responded with the same story that it is the same ammunition. What could it hurt to just say it is a different loading? Ether use it and save so money or pay the difference and get the original #0032?
So, to recap. The first plastic and paper were the same. Then there was the era of the plastic and paper where the bullet was a different color and was more waxy and was explained as export to Europe, as an over run ,or someone cancelled a big order in Europe. Then we throw in the white plastic tray with legs versus the clear plastic separator tells if Federal made it or CCI, plus the lot number differences. Now, we have what seems to be the same case and bullet but a different powder. The answer to this I guess is going to be closely held by the manufactures which they are entitled to. In the scheme of things. The new #0035 seems to shoot as well as the #0032 So I guess you could say it is a lot of hoopla about nothing.
I just thought I would give you readers my experiences about this subject thru the years. Your experiences and information maybe different.
CCI SV
Wow! Great reply! Thanks for taking the time to make that post. It gets curiouser and curiouser. For grins I'm going to pull some bullets when I get a chance.
Steve
Seems to pretty much sum it up, in my experience as well....The new #0035 seems to shoot as well as the #0032 So I guess you could say it is a lot of hoopla about nothing.
Steve
I have to agree. I never shoot CCI, not for a particular reason, but I just don't since Aguila works good for me and the CCI is more expensive but many of my friends shoot CCISV exclusively and they will not buy the stuff in the cardboard boxes. I know that it has been claimed supposedly by the manufacturer that it is the same but many of these guys have been shooting this stuff for years and I have confidence they know the difference. I do remember them all talking about lot numbers to see if they all had stuff from the same lot and they didn't.
I shoot the CCI SV paper box in my Marvel conversion. I've been shooting it for over a year with no problems. I think the problem with the stuff made by Federal is an old story. As long as one buys currently produced paper boxed CCI SV, one should have no problems. The only continuing problem (duds) I've had with .22 ammo over many, many years is made by Remington.