Well, it's that time again.
Our county won the state 4-H match in both air & smallbore rifle. Kids decided to go in air rifle.
Event is in San Antonio this year ... I've sent some emails and have gotten no responses yet and maybe someone here can answer some questions:
1) Is the 3-P air (CMP 3x20)event to be fully sanctioned as a National Council member Championship match this year (25% EIC points)? Are we shooting on ORION/VIS Targets?
2) Is the Silhouette Air Rifle Event to be fired indoors or outdoors?
3) Will CO2 and Air bulk fill tanks be available, or should we plan on bringing our own bulk tanks?
2011 4-H Time rolls around again
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
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Bill Morgan
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:28 pm
- Location: Wilson Co. Texas
4-H Nationals
Joel
The sporter 3-p match "should" be a sanctioned match. It will be shot on the Orion targets. Texas 4-H is real shorthanded this year. CMP has designated Neil Shipley and me as chief range officers for the match. Hopefully to avoid last years results. We are currently trying to get the 4-H folks to adjust the schedule to reflect 2:30 for each relay. Right now they have it set for 2:00 and that is just not enough time. Neil and I have done quite a few CMP and JORC matches together so I'm confident your experience will be a good one. Please let me know your concerns before you get here so we can make it as smooth as possible.
As for the other events, good luck finding out. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
The sporter 3-p match "should" be a sanctioned match. It will be shot on the Orion targets. Texas 4-H is real shorthanded this year. CMP has designated Neil Shipley and me as chief range officers for the match. Hopefully to avoid last years results. We are currently trying to get the 4-H folks to adjust the schedule to reflect 2:30 for each relay. Right now they have it set for 2:00 and that is just not enough time. Neil and I have done quite a few CMP and JORC matches together so I'm confident your experience will be a good one. Please let me know your concerns before you get here so we can make it as smooth as possible.
As for the other events, good luck finding out. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
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Bill Morgan
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:28 pm
- Location: Wilson Co. Texas
4-H Nationals
The smallbore sils are on the 100 yd range. The AR sils are listed on the Air Rifle sils range. Not sure where that will be. If I remember they hold the AR sils outdoors down by the 100/50 yd ranges for their state games. I'll check with Lue @ CMP and see what she has to say about the sanctioning.
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Chequamegon
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
- Location: Central Wisconsin
I was wondering why they changed the Pistol SB Sils from 100 Meters to 100 yards? We have been practicing for more then a month before the change. One would think this should help our kids as they have been practicing tens yards longer.
Response to queries has been lacking in some areas and instant in others.
In our case we have had good communication, but some others have been reporting very poor response times. This is my first rodeo, so I really don't know what to expect and have relied upon others such as those here with more experiance. I would like to say thank you to all those here that have assisted with questions.....even if indirectly!! THANK YOU
BTW any person know where Nationals will be held in 2012 & 2013? One would think that should be announced one year prior, as those that would like to qualify must do so the year prior, just makes sense. Here in Wisconsin 3/4 of the events to qualify are held prior to nationals.....where the annoucement is probably made?
Eric
Response to queries has been lacking in some areas and instant in others.
In our case we have had good communication, but some others have been reporting very poor response times. This is my first rodeo, so I really don't know what to expect and have relied upon others such as those here with more experiance. I would like to say thank you to all those here that have assisted with questions.....even if indirectly!! THANK YOU
BTW any person know where Nationals will be held in 2012 & 2013? One would think that should be announced one year prior, as those that would like to qualify must do so the year prior, just makes sense. Here in Wisconsin 3/4 of the events to qualify are held prior to nationals.....where the annoucement is probably made?
Eric
Believe it or not, it's tough to find ranges here in the US that are laid out for meters. The hosting organization has the option of yards or meters, and my guess is that they have a 100yd facility.
If you have a facility with berms/backstops set for 100 yds, you need another (almost) 10 yards to do meters, sometimes just not enough room.
Announcement will be made (officially) during the last overall awards ceremony, although the word gets around during that week too.
Here in NM our qualifier is the first weekend of May. Not a lot of time for fundraising, etc .... but ... "THIS IS 4-H".
I've always been tempted to write a "new/improved" project book for that project, and then realized we don't want to scare folks away.... ;-)
If you have a facility with berms/backstops set for 100 yds, you need another (almost) 10 yards to do meters, sometimes just not enough room.
Announcement will be made (officially) during the last overall awards ceremony, although the word gets around during that week too.
Here in NM our qualifier is the first weekend of May. Not a lot of time for fundraising, etc .... but ... "THIS IS 4-H".
I've always been tempted to write a "new/improved" project book for that project, and then realized we don't want to scare folks away.... ;-)
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Chequamegon
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
- Location: Central Wisconsin
I understand that many shooters and possibly the host facility do not have 100 meters. I am surprised that this call to change the distance was made so late.
We had to find private property to practice, because our facility is only 100 yards, so we were in the same boat, but not a big deal. I don't care about the distance. Some one should have made this call sooner, if the problem is the host. If there are clubs that can't find place to shoot the longer distance, I am behind the call 100 percent
On a good note the kids should have more confidence!!!
We are really looking forward to this! I cannot imagine the logistics it takes to put this on. If this is the biggest of their problems, they are doing one heck of a job!
We had to find private property to practice, because our facility is only 100 yards, so we were in the same boat, but not a big deal. I don't care about the distance. Some one should have made this call sooner, if the problem is the host. If there are clubs that can't find place to shoot the longer distance, I am behind the call 100 percent
On a good note the kids should have more confidence!!!
We are really looking forward to this! I cannot imagine the logistics it takes to put this on. If this is the biggest of their problems, they are doing one heck of a job!
My guess is that it was an oversight. You have to remember that it was a scramble to find a suitable facility after the fiasco(s) from last year.
I know that there is a difference in the settings that the kids will have to take with them, with a month to go, if I had a team going I think I'd throw in an extra practice or two to confirm those (new) settings.
The one rifle I have lots of experience with is a Kimber 82G we chopped down for silhouette. We normally shoot Eley Target (Yellow Box - Standard Velocity - 1060-1080 fps) in this rifle and the difference between 100m and 100yds is just at 2.3 inches. Even if you used the same settings for meters and you were (at meters) holding center body of rams, a low hold at the level of the top of the bases should give you a solid body hit at 100yds.
My suggestion would be to put the kids on paper for a practice or two so that if they want to keep the same settings they can just do slight hold adjustments. If you are using STD velocity ammo, the difference at chickens should be less than 1/8" POI. Pigs about 3/8 inch and turkeys maybe just about 5/8".
Again - Rifle and STD velocity ammo
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From my perspective the one rifle event we did not practice enough was the rimfire sporter ... the kids rushed the rapid fire portion. More practice & they would have realized that they have plenty of time even there.
I know that there is a difference in the settings that the kids will have to take with them, with a month to go, if I had a team going I think I'd throw in an extra practice or two to confirm those (new) settings.
The one rifle I have lots of experience with is a Kimber 82G we chopped down for silhouette. We normally shoot Eley Target (Yellow Box - Standard Velocity - 1060-1080 fps) in this rifle and the difference between 100m and 100yds is just at 2.3 inches. Even if you used the same settings for meters and you were (at meters) holding center body of rams, a low hold at the level of the top of the bases should give you a solid body hit at 100yds.
My suggestion would be to put the kids on paper for a practice or two so that if they want to keep the same settings they can just do slight hold adjustments. If you are using STD velocity ammo, the difference at chickens should be less than 1/8" POI. Pigs about 3/8 inch and turkeys maybe just about 5/8".
Again - Rifle and STD velocity ammo
========
From my perspective the one rifle event we did not practice enough was the rimfire sporter ... the kids rushed the rapid fire portion. More practice & they would have realized that they have plenty of time even there.
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Chequamegon
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
- Location: Central Wisconsin
Do any persons know the current rules on the grip sizes for smallbore pistol at Nationals? I ask because we have asked and have not had a response. The new NRA (Most recent printing) rules do not show or state this, I am told the old NRA rules did, but I cannot find these. Our coach even asked for the specific rules that those checking .22 pistols will be using and he has had no response also. We are under two weeks out and need to know which grips to use. My son has prcticed with both, but now we are practicing almost every day and would like to know?
I will actually pick up the phone this evening and see if I can get through to someone.
Thank you for the input.
Eric
I will actually pick up the phone this evening and see if I can get through to someone.
Thank you for the input.
Eric
Grips
What type of pistol are we talking about?Chequamegon wrote:Do any persons know the current rules on the grip sizes for smallbore pistol at Nationals? I ask because we have asked and have not had a response. The new NRA (Most recent printing) rules do not show or state this, I am told the old NRA rules did, but I cannot find these. Our coach even asked for the specific rules that those checking .22 pistols will be using and he has had no response also. We are under two weeks out and need to know which grips to use. My son has prcticed with both, but now we are practicing almost every day and would like to know?
I will actually pick up the phone this evening and see if I can get through to someone.
Thank you for the input.
Eric
Eric,
Here are the links to the NRA rules for small bore pistol that I was able tof find. Look at pages 3 and 5 for information about the grips in the first link.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... st-w03.pdf
The illustration for silhouette was left out for what ever reason. Take a look through this section for a description of the grips.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -p-w03.pdf
The last link is for the overall synopsis with links to the NRA rules.
http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/2011_e ... tSynop.pdf
Hope this helps. Good luck to the team.
Sid.
Here are the links to the NRA rules for small bore pistol that I was able tof find. Look at pages 3 and 5 for information about the grips in the first link.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... st-w03.pdf
The illustration for silhouette was left out for what ever reason. Take a look through this section for a description of the grips.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -p-w03.pdf
The last link is for the overall synopsis with links to the NRA rules.
http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/2011_e ... tSynop.pdf
Hope this helps. Good luck to the team.
Sid.
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Chequamegon
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
- Location: Central Wisconsin
Thank You Gentlemen
I have had the 4H Rules since they came out and one coach from another state faxed me the NRA rules stating the grip can be no wider the 2" at any point, where he got it I nor he knows.
4H has been non responsive until today, and I have to say, he was very, very strange and put off by the questions? He told me to ASSUME that the grips had to be what the other coach faxed me. (I am sorry, but we are not driving two days to find out we have equipment that won't be accepted). Then we talked about the yardage change......his response was "At least we told you what the yardage was....we could have not and had you guess when you arrived".....Really??? Why would anyone say that? At that point I asked if this was 3D archery, and that I was sorry that I was wasting his time as my attitude went from trying to help solve problems to this guy is the problem. There are many families traveling from all over he country to compete and this person wants everyone to know what he feels the rules MAY or MAY not be.
He must have felt a little bad at that point and gave me the email address for the person he said was listed as the point of contact for the small bore pistol. This contact information would have been good months ago when our queries started. We emailed him, and hopefully we will get a response. Unlike the non return emails and messages we have had so far.
The NRA rules you posted are what I had found also and at this point I will ASSUME we are good to go. For sils we are using standard Thompson grips, but I custom made the grips for my sons Rugers.
They have these rules referenced in the sysnopsis, however the link is just for a tble of contents and when you search for the you get many, many different results.
Maybe I am a little less intelligent that you guys, but this has been like pulling teeth. Thank god the competition and shooting has tipped the scales in favor of a pleasurable experiance so far. I had not Idea this would be the hard part.
Thank you for all the help here. all those here are responsive and you don't need to be. You help because you want to.....I will get aff my soap box now!
On a side note for those attending this event, lets put some faces with the names down there?
Eric
I have had the 4H Rules since they came out and one coach from another state faxed me the NRA rules stating the grip can be no wider the 2" at any point, where he got it I nor he knows.
4H has been non responsive until today, and I have to say, he was very, very strange and put off by the questions? He told me to ASSUME that the grips had to be what the other coach faxed me. (I am sorry, but we are not driving two days to find out we have equipment that won't be accepted). Then we talked about the yardage change......his response was "At least we told you what the yardage was....we could have not and had you guess when you arrived".....Really??? Why would anyone say that? At that point I asked if this was 3D archery, and that I was sorry that I was wasting his time as my attitude went from trying to help solve problems to this guy is the problem. There are many families traveling from all over he country to compete and this person wants everyone to know what he feels the rules MAY or MAY not be.
He must have felt a little bad at that point and gave me the email address for the person he said was listed as the point of contact for the small bore pistol. This contact information would have been good months ago when our queries started. We emailed him, and hopefully we will get a response. Unlike the non return emails and messages we have had so far.
The NRA rules you posted are what I had found also and at this point I will ASSUME we are good to go. For sils we are using standard Thompson grips, but I custom made the grips for my sons Rugers.
They have these rules referenced in the sysnopsis, however the link is just for a tble of contents and when you search for the you get many, many different results.
Maybe I am a little less intelligent that you guys, but this has been like pulling teeth. Thank god the competition and shooting has tipped the scales in favor of a pleasurable experiance so far. I had not Idea this would be the hard part.
Thank you for all the help here. all those here are responsive and you don't need to be. You help because you want to.....I will get aff my soap box now!
On a side note for those attending this event, lets put some faces with the names down there?
Eric
Eric,
I am sorry you have had such a hard time getting answers to your questions on this. I sure bothers me that these folks don't care to help out like they should.
Our county is sending an air rifle team but unfortunately I will not be going with them. Another coach is taking the team this year so I won't be able to meet you. Maybe sometime in the future somewhere.
As for the synopsis I went to section 3 and clicked on that link to get the page I needed for the dimensions for the grips. I would think that you are ok with what you have. I hope all goes well for you and your kids.
Sid.
I am sorry you have had such a hard time getting answers to your questions on this. I sure bothers me that these folks don't care to help out like they should.
Our county is sending an air rifle team but unfortunately I will not be going with them. Another coach is taking the team this year so I won't be able to meet you. Maybe sometime in the future somewhere.
As for the synopsis I went to section 3 and clicked on that link to get the page I needed for the dimensions for the grips. I would think that you are ok with what you have. I hope all goes well for you and your kids.
Sid.
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TexasShooter
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 pm
- Location: Texas
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Chequamegon
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 pm
- Location: Central Wisconsin
This shoot went very well. Every one was great to deal with.....Texans and San Antonio were great hosts! The facilities were awsome!
The only negative thing I saw or heard of was the break ins and marking of tires for later theft. Some teams lost all there gear.
I would definately go back, but its Nebraska next year. They will be great hosts also.
The only negative thing I saw or heard of was the break ins and marking of tires for later theft. Some teams lost all there gear.
I would definately go back, but its Nebraska next year. They will be great hosts also.